Lionel # 6-83174 Double Signal Bridge

Hi Arnold,  I don't have much experience with these, have you removed it from your layout tested it. Sometimes the insulated rails can short out.  You probably already know that, so I am responding to keep your question alive.... Always enjoy your posts, Best Dave

Thanks, Dave, the answer is yes. This afternoon, I took the double signal bridge off the layout, and tested it on the living room floor.

Specifically, I used the exact same insulated outside rail and wiring, and tested both signals. When the train car entered the insulated rail, the red light for the left signal came on, but the red light for the right signal did not. Based on this test, I believe the red LED bulb for the right signal needs to be replaced.

It would be great if someone can tell me how to replace a bad LED for this accessory, and where I can get a new red LED for it.

If you are comfortable soldering on a tiny circuit board, the LED appears to be 5mm.  Alternatively, Lionel sells the entire circuit board with both the red and green LED’s.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...Signal-Bridge_614095

Thank you, Dan.

@Arnold D. Cribari,

There was a thread a while back that compared the incandescent bulbs, painted vs tinted glass for the old signal bridge.  While the paint annoyingly chips off, I and several others thought the painted bulbs looked better.  Have you compared the light from the LEDs to the incandescent version?

Arnold

leds can be purchased almost anywhere even Amazon. the complete board and LED's from Lionel shown by Danr, looks not to costly and probably easy to replace if you're not comfortable soldering a small board like this one.

One more thought this morning; while the LED is not working, it is possible that one of the other components on that little circuit board has failed.  You could test the LED by touching a 3 volt DC source directly to the LED pins on the board.  If it will not light, proceed with changing the LED (check the diameter of the LED, it could 5mm or 3mm).  I would still order the replacement board then work on replacing the LED.  If soldering goes well, you have a backup board of the future - all you have to do is remember where you put it.

@texgeekboy posted:

@Arnold D. Cribari,

There was a thread a while back that compared the incandescent bulbs, painted vs tinted glass for the old signal bridge.  While the paint annoyingly chips off, I and several others thought the painted bulbs looked better.  Have you compared the light from the LEDs to the incandescent version?

I tend to prefer the appearance of the light from incandescent bulbs, which is warmer and brighter, but find the light from LEDs to be OK.

The advantages of LEDs include no heat and long lasting.

Thanks for your very helpful input, Dave, Patrick and Dan.

This morning I got an account with Lionelsupport.com, and ordered the circuit board including the green and red LEDs. Hopefully, it will arrive soon, and I'll be able to substitute the new circuit board for the faulty one. Arnold

Arnold, that’s good news.

I must share this with you. I found out in my O scale project that has LEDs that too much heat exposure will either kill LEDs or dramatically reduce their life span.

I am hopeful that instructions are clear to proceed with said circuit board. Best of luck, can’t wait to see them in action.

@Leroof posted:

Arnold, that’s good news.

I must share this with you. I found out in my O scale project that has LEDs that too much heat exposure will either kill LEDs or dramatically reduce their life span.

I am hopeful that instructions are clear to proceed with said circuit board. Best of luck, can’t wait to see them in action.my basement

Leroof, what do you mean by too much heat exposure with respect to LEDs?

It's my understanding that LEDs give off little, if any, heat whereas incandescent bulbs give off much more heat, especially when applying 18 or more volts.

My basement where my train layout is located is heated and always a comfortable temperature. Arnold

Arnold,  this has nothing to do with your train room ambient temperature!
Exposure to high heat as in soldering can cause LED death or reduction in function. I originally had soldered some LEDs wires and they didn’t take well to the heat. Worked, became dim and prematurely died. Another experience I had embedded LEDs in a liquid clear substance to make a loco head lamp lens. I made the mistake to unnaturally accelerate the drying process with a drying box used for curing paint and other applications. I spoke with Evans designs maker of the mini LEDs and they explained that accelerated heat extreme heat and exposure to heat should be as  short as possible. apparently the Lionel module approach circuit board should be fine.
According to the photo you provided (which I didn’t see earlier) the LEDs  have already been  soldered or fastened in the board if I am understanding this correctly. So you should have no trouble.

Hi Arnold,  keep us posted on how the new part works for you.  This version of the signal bridge has some interesting features,  I had used some relays and capacitor to get the vintage version of the bridge #450 to work with an insulated track using an article in CTT.  Those parts were from Radio Shack and are no longer available, so your version of the signal bridge provides a much easier solution.

Good choice, Arnold.  Should be an easy replacement.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

The advantages of LEDs include no heat and long lasting.

...and lower power draw.  Dramatically so for long passenger trains having multi-bulb factory lighting.

BTW...Dan's (Danr) suggestion to put 3v directly to the LED leads is  spot-on, IMHO.  This past weekend I was replacing the batt in an older 5vPS2 MTH F3 A-unit.  In giving the engine a final check, I noticed that the green marker LED's at the nose number boards were not lighting as they should.   They are powered from the chassis through a common 2-conductor connector featuring springs (shell) contacting pc pads (chassis).  Before doing anything else, I applied 3v DC to the shell springs to see if the LED's were OK...which they were.  Also, the chassis pads had about 3v DC when the chassis was powered up.  Suspect?...the springs weren't reaching the pads.   Stretched them out a bit, reassembled, bingo!, done.  A little easy checking can save time...and money...and aggravation!

As a side note after reading about heat and LEDs soldering can kill an unprotected LED.   So when soldering LED leads it is best to use a pair of clamp forceps (or similar) as a heat sink to prevent damage to the component.

-Mike in NC,   

@Former Member posted:

Hi Arnold,  keep us posted on how the new part works for you.  This version of the signal bridge has some interesting features,  I had used some relays and capacitor to get the vintage version of the bridge #450 to work with an insulated track using an article in CTT.  Those parts were from Radio Shack and are no longer available, so your version of the signal bridge provides a much easier solution.

Hi Dave,

This is the follow up you requested.

I got the new part from Lionel (LEDs with little circuit board and wire lead). I struggle with all things mechanical but even I could remove the old part, replace it with the new part, and it works. It cost $12 plus shipping.

In view of the possibility that heat from soldering could damage the circuit board, I did no soldering. Instead, I simply twisted the wires together and taped them. Arnold

Arnold, Sorry to be late to this thread.  I took 2 post war 450 bridges, cut them, and welded them together.   Added red/green LED lites for the middle track. I kept the incandescent lights and used 18 volt bulbs.  None of them have burnt out in over a year of operation.

@Wood posted:

Arnold, Sorry to be late to this thread.  I took 2 post war 450 bridges, cut them, and welded them together.   Added red/green LED lites for the middle track. I kept the incandescent lights and used 18 volt bulbs.  None of them have burnt out in over a year of operation.

Very nice, Wood, signal bridges are among my favorite accessories. Arnold

Hi Arnold, great to find a solution and make the repair!

Glad to hear you were successful Arnold.