Lionel AF 1988 Historic American Railroads #6 (HAR#6) Wabash Freight Set - PA unit questions

The Wabash PA's have can motors and an electronic reverse unit.  When I used to do train shows, my Wabash PA's ran for their assigned hour slot with no problems.

The big issue with the MPC/Lionel production is inconsistency.  One locomotive may run great while the another, not so much.

Rusty

Thanks Rusty.   Apparently this one was running fine and then simply quit.  Maybe a wire came loose or reverse unit failure, who knows.  Will find out later this month when dropped off for me to look at.   Wonder if it is the same drive train and electronics as in NP PA of '92 or not.  That system was pretty robust.

My NP starts too quickly and derails the cars. I'm going to add a voltage reducer when I get around to running it. The early Flyonel PAs (Daylight and the first run of the next roadname--I forget what it was) used a motor very much like the ACG ones, except with a double-wound field for the reversing mode. These also used a unique reverse unit. Of course parts are NOT available anymore!

first run of the next roadname 

I believe the Erie also had the open frame motor as well as the Boston and Maine and the  B&O freight sets.

Ray 

David, I also had problems with some of the cars in a number of my streamliner sets derailing. I went through all the cars and some needed the wheel sets re-gauged. Hope this may help you as well.

The Erie has can motors.

I stand corrected, thank you, I looked at my B&M, it also has a can motor. The B&O which I also checked does have the open frame motor.

Ray

If I recall the early B&O versions had the double wound motor and the later versions used the can motor.

Ray, It's not gauge problems, the Flyonel can motors used then are designed for a lower starting voltage than the big ACG transformers start with, so the engines leap forward and any following cars on a curve are just dragged off the tracks! And then there is the issue of the metal couplers, which will cause short circuits once the paint on them wears down. Flyonel should have recalled all these and replaced them with plastic couplers, but that never happened, and won't!

I think the B & O engines came early with the open frame motor, but apparently two production runs, as I have seen them also with can motors. This is from memory, so I COULD be wrong!!

Thanks everyone.  I'm anticipating a dual can motor powered PA with electronic reverse unit.  I can provide more info/details on that after received if anyone is interested.  

PS  My PA's start off smoother (w/o Jack Rabbit starts) with the use of TPC 400's and Legacy.  The additional speed steps and starting at 0 VAC allow for smooth easy starts from nearly anything.

And oh yes, the metal couplers originally on my NP set initially drove me nuts.  Changing them our with  plastic couplers made a big difference.  The metal couplers on lighted cars is right up there with the original tweener wheels on the cylindrical hoppers -- a little pre-manufacture testing on real-world layouts would have made a big difference. 

Rayin"S" posted:

I stand corrected, thank you, I looked at my B&M, it also has a can motor. The B&O which I also checked does have the open frame motor.

Ray

Actually, the B&O PA's had two production runs: 1981 and 1983.  The 1981 version had the open frame motors and the 1983 version had the can motors.

Rusty

Rusty

How can you tell if the B&O PA's are from 1981 or 1983?  Which version would you say was better? 

Ira

 

IraG posted:

Rusty

How can you tell if the B&O PA's are from 1981 or 1983?  Which version would you say was better? 

Ira

 

By the motors.  The 1981 version had the open frame motors and the 1983 version had the can motors.

As far a I can tell, it's a wash.  The problems I've experienced isn't with the motors, it's with the power truck blocks and quality wasn't Job 1 with them back then.  The archaic design and assembly method may have been OK in the 1950's, but not 30+ years later.

Lionel currently uses a much better design for Flyer diesels.

Rusty