Lionel CC Switch Issue (controlling two with remote)

Are you combining a RH and LH switch with the same controller?

@Tracker John posted:

Are you combining a RH and LH switch with the same controller?

Yes. For a passing siding. One on each end. In the photo I'm showing a crossover but the idea is the same. Control two switches with one controller. Again, its worked fine twice before. I should add that I programmed them both to the same number in my legacy remote and they work fine there. However with the controller, not so much. 

Here's my wiring. The side with two of each wire goes to each switch the side with one wire goes to the controller. Both switches are wired the same. 

@Trainlover9943 posted:

Here's my wiring. The side with two of each wire goes to each switch the side with one wire goes to the controller. Both switches are wired the same. 

I see two blue and two red wires on that side, but only one black and yellow ?

@Richie C. posted:

I see two blue and two red wires on that side, but only one black and yellow ?

My bad. I didn't need two blacks or yellow. The black is ground and the yellow is for the light on the controller. Regardless, it still doesn't work correctly. 

Have you tried a different controller ?

@Richie C. posted:

Have you tried a different controller ?

No but each switch works fine by itself (connected to the same controller I'm having this issue with) however when connecting the wires together is when my issue happen. 

I haven't tried wiring two CC switches together but the chattering behavior matches K-Line switches.  The switch controllers use DC polarity to light the correct LED and drive the switch motor.  RH and LH K-Line switches must use a matched controller.   You might have a similar situation where diodes provide a feedback loop causing the chatter on one switch and blocking the signal to the non-responding switch.

Your crossover uses two RH switches so you don't get the mismatch chatter.

Try using a SPDT momentary contact switch (without the lights) wired between the track ground and the insulated rails.

@Tracker John posted:

I haven't tried wiring two CC switches together but the chattering behavior matches K-Line switches.  The switch controllers use DC polarity to light the correct LED and drive the switch motor.  RH and LH K-Line switches must use a matched controller.   You might have a similar situation where diodes provide a feedback loop causing the chatter on one switch and blocking the signal to the non-responding switch.

Your crossover uses two RH switches so you don't get the mismatch chatter.

Try using a SPDT momentary contact switch (without the lights) wired between the track ground and the insulated rails.

I'll have to purchase a momentary switch as I don't have one. I'll buy one and give it a try. Any recommendations on one? 

I have miniature toggles bought years ago from Radio Shack, Jameco, AllElectronics, etc.  Amazon seems to label these as "car dash" items so you might be able to find one at an auto parts store.  A pair of momentary door bell buttons would also work.

Test that the approach works with alligator clip test leads first.

@Tracker John posted:

I have miniature toggles bought years ago from Radio Shack, Jameco, AllElectronics, etc.  Amazon seems to label these as "car dash" items so you might be able to find one at an auto parts store.  A pair of momentary door bell buttons would also work.

Test that the approach works with alligator clip test leads first.

Cool. If I use those toggles, I take it I can't use the lionel controllers? 

If the Lionel controller doesn't work, my guess is a different toggle won't either.  Here's a diagram of what's in the switch.

One comment, try removing one of the yellow wires, they're outputting +/- 5VDC, maybe that's where you're going wrong, that would be clashing in the switches.  I've wired two of these together in the past, and they worked fine.  I didn't wire both yellows to the switch, but the red/green/black are all paralleled.  You can also swap one switch green and red if you want one to be thru and the outer to be out for each path.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If the Lionel controller doesn't work, my guess is a different toggle won't either.  Here's a diagram of what's in the switch.

One comment, try removing one of the yellow wires, they're outputting +/- 5VDC, maybe that's where you're going wrong, that would be clashing in the switches.  I've wired two of these together in the past, and they worked fine.  I didn't wire both yellows to the switch, but the red/green/black are all paralleled.  You can also swap one switch green and red if you want one to be thru and the outer to be out for each path.

I'll try reconnect everything and leave out the duplicate yellow wire and see if that works. For this passing siding. I'll want both to be set in the same direction. 

"try removing one of the yellow wires, they're outputting +/- 5VDC, maybe that's where you're going wrong, that would be clashing in the switches. "

Agree.  The circuit indicates the yellow provides +/- DC to illuminate the appropriate LED which is how the switch tells the controller its position.  Tying the yellows together is probably causing the problem.

@Tracker John posted:

"try removing one of the yellow wires, they're outputting +/- 5VDC, maybe that's where you're going wrong, that would be clashing in the switches. "

Agree.  The circuit indicates the yellow provides +/- DC to illuminate the appropriate LED which is how the switch tells the controller its position.  Tying the yellows together is probably causing the problem.

Still not working. Attached is a video and photo of the wiring 

Hmmm...have you substituted one and then the other of those two switches with a spare switch?

@cjack posted:

Hmmm...have you substituted one and then the other of those two switches with a spare switch?

No. I really can't since I have all my other CC switches all wired in as pairs. I suppose I could if I absolutely had to. 

@Trainlover9943 posted:

No. I really can't since I have all my other CC switches all wired in as pairs. I suppose I could if I absolutely had to. 

Understood...it might sort out the issue. It's like one is wired internally wired differently, or some such.

Seems like internal wiring is the same, as both work individually.

@John H posted:

Seems like internal wiring is the same, as both work individually.

Yes, its the they both work fine individually that has me puzzled. Not sure what to do now. 

I can't answer that either. But doing something different sometimes uncovers an unthought of issue.

@cjack posted:

I can't answer that either. But doing something different sometimes uncovers an unthought of issue.

True. I might just have to forgo using both switches on one controller and just use two separate ones. which isn't a huge deal but it would've been nice. 

Curiously, does the anti-derail work the same on both switches?

@cjack posted:

Curiously, does the anti-derail work the same on both switches?

Yes 

Anti derail does work. I'm thinking I'll just run each switch on a separate remote. 

I ended up just using a separate remote for each switch. Eventually I'm going to add an AIU for MTH control of my switches. I take it I'll have to wire each switch to a separate port or could I use one like I'll do with my crossovers?