Lionel D-133 display - help / advice needed

I suggest posting pictures of the layout and the damage, first.

Contact forum member Jagrick through his profile- see some his work and displays here

Thank you for the suggestion to contact Jagrick and the link. If he doesn't comment, I will try writing him.

Here are some photos of the display. I have not touched it yet. I plan to take pictures all during the process to document what I did. I did something similar during a home remodel, and it is neat to be able to go back and see how the job went.

Thick paperboard can be found in artists' stores eg. <www.utrechtart.com> ; <www.michaels.com/shop/art-supplies/809187942>

There are a number of cleaners for removing the residue from tapes, such as "Scotch", however ALWAYS pretest it on a hidden area to prevent a catastrophe.

Wallpaper cleaner, such as Absorene putty, does a good job removing surface dust and dirt.

Have fun.

Ron M

Nice find. The Circle L's are of a fiberboard, but have not had the best of luck finding a duplicate but 1/4" MDF or masonite (non-tempered). Or I have glued 2 pieces of the 1/8" fiber board which is very close to what lionel was using. The green color was a paper laminated to the surface of the fiberboard structure, which can be duplicated by painting a piece of poster board and gluing. The layout lookgs pretty good-are the bus bars still there. If you need to contact me feel free to ricklyons@tds.net

To glue the raised area use a syringe to place glue under delaminated section and pressure from both sides

Jagrick posted:

Nice find. The Circle L's are of a fiberboard, but have not had the best of luck finding a duplicate but 1/4" MDF or masonite (non-tempered). Or I have glued 2 pieces of the 1/8" fiber board which is very close to what lionel was using. The green color was a paper laminated to the surface of the fiberboard structure, which can be duplicated by painting a piece of poster board and gluing. The layout lookgs pretty good-are the bus bars still there. If you need to contact me feel free to ricklyons@tds.net

¼" fiberboard can be obtained at Home Depot.

<http://www.homedepot.com/p/Med...in-1508104/202089069>

Ron M

I really appreciate all of the responses to this thread. I am very excited to have come into the possession of this display. I didn't think I'd ever have a Lionel sales display.

I probably won't get a good look at the underside on the layout until this evening, when someone will be around to help me flip it over.
JagRick asked whether the buss bars were still there.    There are two strips, made of brass or copper, attached to the underside of the Masonite. They are rather thin. I think the wiring is original. I will photograph the underside.

Today's goal is to get all the loose debris, dust off the layout and shelf display, so I can bring it from the garage into the house.

If there is any noticeable difference, I will post some more pictures.

Jagrick posted:

Nice find. The Circle L's are of a fiberboard, but have not had the best of luck finding a duplicate but 1/4" MDF or masonite (non-tempered).

The material is most likely "Upson Board", commonly used in display work, theatrical, film, television sets. Apparently, it was widely used in homes. Having worked with the stuff, I don't believe it to own any of the properties  this ad claims....It's still out there, but not used much anymore.

Nice find. Good luck!

I found this site on Upson Board: Niagara Fiberboard

Thanks for posting info. I hope they don't require a huge order for the upsonite--Their S-board looks intriquing, might try to replicate the kodachrome display!!

Jagrick posted:

Thanks for posting info. I hope they don't require a huge order for the upsonite--Their S-board looks intriquing, might try to replicate the kodachrome display!!

Are you looking at the Easy-Curve? Have used tons of that too. It's great for curved walls, arches and such. We could get huge sheets of Upsom.. 8'x12', if I remember correctly. Flimsy, but fewer seams. Luan and Meranti have essentially replaced the use of these materials in most scenic elements.

I wrote to Niagara Fiberboard to ask whether there is any place local to me to purchase their material. Their web page says they take credit cards, so I guess they must do direct sales.

I am hoping there is an area theater supply house that carries their products.

I will share information when I receive a response.

CharlieS posted: 

 I am hoping there is an area theater supply house that carries their products.

I can guarantee that you will not source this stuff through a theatre supply house. Your best bet to find it locally would be searching out specialty lumber yards, and no, not the big box variety. You may also check out display companies, and perhaps even sign companies. Now that signs are mostly printed, that thought may be a bit of a stretch.

I must add, this stuff can be challenging to cut. Unless you have access to one of these (Cutawl) it's very difficult, if not impossible to get a clean cut. I would then consider using a different material.

This will be a fun project. Keep us posted...

I found several videos on Cutawl saws on youtube. Here is one.

It looks like the Cutawl is a high precision, very fine jig saw. I love tools, but its unlikely I am going to buy one.  I do have a very fine hobbyist jig saw that was made by Minicraft, and there is always the option to use a hand saw. But you never know, there is always EBay.......

No reply from Niagara Fiberboard yet. And our local theater supply outfit doesn't sell any material for scenery construction (as Jon predicted). They do sound, light, rigging, and projection screens.

Didn't get help to flip the layout over yesterday, so I think I am stuck for today.

Once again, I really appreciate all the comments.

Upson board 

A rotozip might do as well. Seems to be a small stroke scroll saw, the hold down feature helps with precision. 

It's almost like a sewing machine with it's precision, but has the added benefit of being able to rotate the cutter 360 degrees on itself via the thumbwheel. Here's a sample of blades offered...

The issue with Upson is that it shreds quite easily and does not take well to sanding. I have had success using knife type blades in a Bosch sabre saw when cutting fibrous or soft materials. The tearing effect is greatly reduced and the blades are relatively inexpensive.

Lionel may not have used upson then. The stuff seems sturdier and can be sanded.

The Upson material that I'm familiar with is very much like thick mat board. It's flimsy in the sense that large sheets are ungainly to handle, but it is dense. Depending on the application, it must be mounted on a frame or substrate. The face will accept lite sanding, best done after priming with a solvent-based primer, which in effect freezes fiber hairs. The edges are more tolerant to sanding. Closer examination of this photo leaves me with little doubt that this was indeed made of Upson. The damage looks all too familiar...

Here's an update on my project:

We are gearing up to have some work done at the house, so the display layout has gone into storage. I was worried about moving the shelf section around, so I built a box around it. We expect the project to take several months once it starts. By then I will be able to work on the display in the garage. My brother has suggested that maybe I should clean it, and skip any restoration, as in replacing the missing pieces of paper skin. That would be in keeping with my trains. With one exception, none of my trains that I consider to be part of my collection are restored.

I have been watching Cutawl saws on Ebay, and looking around on the web. The nice ones seem to fetch a good dollar. Blades seem to be scarce and expensive.

Finally, I saw an interesting EBay lot. Someone is offering an Upson board sales display item. It suggests using Upson Board as the surface of a train table.

Here is the lot.

.

The work on my house has been completed, and my display layout is back from storage. Yesterday afternoon my older son stopped by and helped me move it inside. (Its too cold to work on it outside, and I need the space in the garage)

I guess I am going to have to decide what to do. My older brother says leave it original. My son says its so rough, that I should restore it. I think I am leaning towards a restoration, but the effort is outside my comfort zone.
No hurry, I haven't even uncrated the shelf part yet.

My humble suggestion would be to restore the display using modern materials that are readily available without altering the overall look of the display.  

Sixty years ago it was generally expected these displays were only going to be used for two or three years, so material selection was made accordingly. Now they are a piece of history and when restored should be done with the overall goal of minimizing wear going forward.

Just my $.02

your call, but things are only original once. If it were mine, I would feel completely comfortable leaving it as is, just clean easily. Great find and thanks for sharing.

Hey, Charlie,

I was looking through display info that I have and the base layout doesn't match the 133. The store could have ordered it differently to display other products. The road and track pattern didn't match any documentation that I have .

The top half is definitely 133 and the 4' x 6' size of the bottom is correct.

That is a D133 base: place for watch tower, track etc. 

base and shelf from original. They are the same

I would clean and rewire and keep original rather than try to restore. The green om the shelf is an applied paper and not paint. Light fixture is standard still today. 

D133 lit up

Charlie's, fwiw I would save the money and give it to a professional who restores these unique layouts.

Jagrick posted:

base and shelf from original. They are the same

I suppose it's a case of literature differing from production. From the instructions:

A lot if not most of the displays differ from what was sold especially early on. I have a lot of literature and photos of this stuff and reproduce a lot of them 

This morning I finally got my display temporarily assembled to see what it looks like. 
So far it has only been vacuumed, and brushed off.
I don't feel I have it supported properly to leave it put together, and I think any cleaning or restoration that I am going to do is better done with the parts separated.

I want to build a proper sub-frame to set it on.

Here are a couple of photos.

In the past year and a half, I haven't really found much time to work on my D-133 (pictured above).
I did clean the white plastic background for the illuminated letters on one side.
I purchased some paper stock and the glue they recommended at our local art supply store.
This is to replace the loose / missing paper covering on the lower part of the shelf unit.
I also brought a section of that loose covering over to Sherman-Williams paint to have it color matched. I think the custom color came out well.

So. I think my next step is to attach the paper covering to the shelf unit, and paint it after it is mounted.
Here are my quandaries:

There are a number of very rusty flat head nails holding the flat "cardboard" frame to the shelving unit. What to do about them? If I try to remove them for replacement with clean hardware, I think I am going to dig up the soft cardboard face, and may break some of the heads off. Maybe I should leave them alone, or maybe paint them with Zinsser BIN to seal the rust?

Do I glue the paper on first, and then trim it to match the outline of the cardboard face frame?

Did the art store steer me right on the glue? They sold me Lineco Neutral PH Adhesive.
The bottle says its for paper, board, framing, collage, crafts and bookbinding.

Finally, how tall are the shelves over the top of the train board?
I measure that the train board is approximately 2 inches thick, and that the highest point on the shelving unit is 40 1/2 inches above the board.

I want to build a base for the layout, and I have limited ceiling height.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
I figure that I really only have one chance to get it right.
I still may decide to just finish cleaning it and just set it up as is.

From the road I tired you have a complete setup. Not sure of what you are asking about shel height 

Just looking to verify my measurements on overall height. I am mostly working alone, so I cannot readily assemble and disassemble the display to take measurements.

I'll measure mine and let you know