what would cause a modern mid- 90s/ early 2000s Lionel engine, to run and suddenly stop but headlight remains lit. I’m thinking the E-unit. But looking for others opinions
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If it’sa pullmor motor check the brushes.
Newer can motor, it came from eBay and I tested once I got it. Probably about 8-9 year ago.
Never did any with it till this year when I put it on for my daughter to run on the Christmas platform. It’ll run and stop on random spots.
The head light will stray on and I can’t get it to go again with the direction button or anything.
Number please?
Jon 
Did you try to give it a nice lubrication on all the axle points? I have seen dry locomotives stop and hang.
After sitting 8/9 years would clean the pickup roller or rollers as the gunk on them harden. If not would take of shell and inspect wiring.
Can't hurt.
KOOLjock1 posted:Number please?
Jon
The cab number is 8632. I ain’t sure on the product number
clean clean clean the wheels. I had a Lionel loco do the same thing. the wheels,
although looked clean, were very dirty. used electronic spray cleaner (Walmart auto section)
on a Q tip. you shoulda seen the grim that came off those "clean" wheels
Basic Stater Set 4-4-2. The reverse unit is solid state. Check the reverse lock-out switch under the cab floor. Does it roll freely on the track? If not, you've got binding of the smoke unit lever.
Jon
SandJam posted:Did you try to give it a nice lubrication on all the axle points? I have seen dry locomotives stop and hang.
Only when I first got it
Popi posted:clean clean clean the wheels. I had a Lionel loco do the same thing. the wheels,
although looked clean, were very dirty. used electronic spray cleaner (Walmart auto section)
on a Q tip. you shoulda seen the grim that came off those "clean" wheels
I never thought of that. Could I do the same on rollers?
KOOLjock1 posted:Basic Stater Set 4-4-2. The reverse unit is solid state. Check the reverse lock-out switch under the cab floor. Does it roll freely on the track? If not, you've got binding of the smoke unit lever.
Jon
It was in position for F-N-R. I never lock the direction In. Yes it does move freely
I've worked on a good number of these 4-4-2 engines. For the most part, they are rock solid. I have one that is my test engine that I'll run for long lengths of time and it just keeps running. To your question: I've had a few of these do this, no amount of cleaning, etc would fix the problem, so I completely dismantle the engine. I do not disassemble the motor frame and wheels but do inspect closely everything there in. I buy used on eBay and I've found cat hair, human hair, the dreaded steel wool fragments, etc. I'll lube the two axles while it's disassembled. And for what ever reason, this usually fixes the problem. I highly doubt that lubing fixed it, it's more like, I've moved something (I suspect wiring) and it starts working. If you do this, test run first before reassembling the locomotive. Sometimes I'll let it run a good 15 minutes in both directions just to be sure. Also by reassembling in steps: if it runs fine in the previous step and you put a new piece on and it get's flaky you may have found your problem. Another thing, not all the DC motor solder points have tape on them. The tape was added to prevent grounding to the shell. Also, the MOSFET's on the e-unit board. Some have tape covering them, others don't. For peace of mind, I'll put Kapton tape over them but you can use electrical tape.
Steve
RideTheRails posted:I've worked on a good number of these 4-4-2 engines. For the most part, they are rock solid. I have one that is my test engine that I'll run for long lengths of time and it just keeps running. To your question: I've had a few of these do this, no amount of cleaning, etc would fix the problem, so I completely dismantle the engine. I do not disassemble the motor frame and wheels but do inspect closely everything there in. I buy used on eBay and I've found cat hair, human hair, the dreaded steel wool fragments, etc. I'll lube the two axles while it's disassembled. And for what ever reason, this usually fixes the problem. I highly doubt that lubing fixed it, it's more like, I've moved something (I suspect wiring) and it starts working. If you do this, test run first before reassembling the locomotive. Sometimes I'll let it run a good 15 minutes in both directions just to be sure. Also by reassembling in steps: if it runs fine in the previous step and you put a new piece on and it get's flaky you may have found your problem. Another thing, not all the DC motor solder points have tape on them. The tape was added to prevent grounding to the shell. Also, the MOSFET's on the e-unit board. Some have tape covering them, others don't. For peace of mind, I'll put Kapton tape over them but you can use electrical tape.
Steve
I’ll start small and work my way up. I’m taking everyone’s tip and advice. I appreciate it all. Me and my student engineer are going out the local shop to give momma and the baby sis a break from the adventures of a 2 year old. If all goes well before work tonight I’ll get started on it. How difficult is disassembly? I heard it could get tricky with these particular engines
I picked up this engine for my son about 5 years ago. I had the same issue that you are describing where the engine was getting power, but wasn't moving. My issue was that side rods/valve gear was binding. If I remember correctly, it wasn't much of a bend that was causing the issue. I was able to straighten by hand.
Slowly and lightly turn the wheels by hand until you feel the slightest binding/friction and observe where the side rods/valve gear might be binding. You may need to unscrew a few screws from the bottom of the engine to re-align or reshape the side rods/valve gear if that is your issue.
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Just to add, it's a great little engine! And is tough enough for a toddler to really play with.
AVR conductor posted:RideTheRails posted:I've worked on a good number of these 4-4-2 engines. For the most part, they are rock solid. I have one that is my test engine that I'll run for long lengths of time and it just keeps running. To your question: I've had a few of these do this, no amount of cleaning, etc would fix the problem, so I completely dismantle the engine. I do not disassemble the motor frame and wheels but do inspect closely everything there in. I buy used on eBay and I've found cat hair, human hair, the dreaded steel wool fragments, etc. I'll lube the two axles while it's disassembled. And for what ever reason, this usually fixes the problem. I highly doubt that lubing fixed it, it's more like, I've moved something (I suspect wiring) and it starts working. If you do this, test run first before reassembling the locomotive. Sometimes I'll let it run a good 15 minutes in both directions just to be sure. Also by reassembling in steps: if it runs fine in the previous step and you put a new piece on and it get's flaky you may have found your problem. Another thing, not all the DC motor solder points have tape on them. The tape was added to prevent grounding to the shell. Also, the MOSFET's on the e-unit board. Some have tape covering them, others don't. For peace of mind, I'll put Kapton tape over them but you can use electrical tape.
Steve
I’ll start small and work my way up. I’m taking everyone’s tip and advice. I appreciate it all. Me and my student engineer are going out the local shop to give momma and the baby sis a break from the adventures of a 2 year old. If all goes well before work tonight I’ll get started on it. How difficult is disassembly? I heard it could get tricky with these particular engines
Hard to say. I’ve worked on so many of these engines that I just know how to disassemble and reassemble. I guess the tricky parts are the wiring - getting it stuffed back in there. It’s more being careful not to pinch any of the wire against the shell. The smoke unit can be a little tricky to align with the smokestack on the shell. Do not over tighten the hex screws on the drive wheels. The plastic can strip easy and is sometimes cracked due to someone else getting over zealous. If you’ve got some mechanical ability then this shouldn’t be a problem for you. These are excellent engines to learn on.
Steve
JD2035RR posted:I picked up this engine for my son about 5 years ago. I had the same issue that you are describing where the engine was getting power, but wasn't moving. My issue was that side rods/valve gear was binding. If I remember correctly, it wasn't much of a bend that was causing the issue. I was able to straighten by hand.
Slowly and lightly turn the wheels by hand until you feel the slightest binding/friction and observe where the side rods/valve gear might be binding. You may need to unscrew a few screws from the bottom of the engine to re-align or reshape the side rods/valve gear if that is your issue.
I actually got this off of eBay to pull MTH RK cars from the Pittsburgh/western pa region. I have a Lionel n5c PRR caboose probably from the same set, also from eBay. That was assigned to the Pittsburgh region. It was a good fit. Now that the toddler is more attentive and wants to run, I brought the engine out. You’re right it is nice for her to run, I had the same little 4-4-2 when I was her age, except mine was for Chessie. This one is PRR
RideTheRails posted:AVR conductor posted:RideTheRails posted:I've worked on a good number of these 4-4-2 engines. For the most part, they are rock solid. I have one that is my test engine that I'll run for long lengths of time and it just keeps running. To your question: I've had a few of these do this, no amount of cleaning, etc would fix the problem, so I completely dismantle the engine. I do not disassemble the motor frame and wheels but do inspect closely everything there in. I buy used on eBay and I've found cat hair, human hair, the dreaded steel wool fragments, etc. I'll lube the two axles while it's disassembled. And for what ever reason, this usually fixes the problem. I highly doubt that lubing fixed it, it's more like, I've moved something (I suspect wiring) and it starts working. If you do this, test run first before reassembling the locomotive. Sometimes I'll let it run a good 15 minutes in both directions just to be sure. Also by reassembling in steps: if it runs fine in the previous step and you put a new piece on and it get's flaky you may have found your problem. Another thing, not all the DC motor solder points have tape on them. The tape was added to prevent grounding to the shell. Also, the MOSFET's on the e-unit board. Some have tape covering them, others don't. For peace of mind, I'll put Kapton tape over them but you can use electrical tape.
Steve
I’ll start small and work my way up. I’m taking everyone’s tip and advice. I appreciate it all. Me and my student engineer are going out the local shop to give momma and the baby sis a break from the adventures of a 2 year old. If all goes well before work tonight I’ll get started on it. How difficult is disassembly? I heard it could get tricky with these particular engines
Hard to say. I’ve worked on so many of these engines that I just know how to disassemble and reassemble. I guess the tricky parts are the wiring - getting it stuffed back in there. It’s more being careful not to pinch any of the wire against the shell. The smoke unit can be a little tricky to align with the smokestack on the shell. Do not over tighten the hex screws on the drive wheels. The plastic can strip easy and is sometimes cracked due to someone else getting over zealous. If you’ve got some mechanical ability then this shouldn’t be a problem for you. These are excellent engines to learn on.
Steve
Ok thanks. I’ll give that a shot. I’ve done my fair share of 2025s and 2026s so I’ll get into it at some point
AVR conductor posted:Newer can motor, it came from eBay and I tested once I got it. Probably about 8-9 year ago.
Never did any with it till this year when I put it on for my daughter to run on the Christmas platform. It’ll run and stop on random spots.
The head light will stray on and I can’t get it to go again with the direction button or anything.
Out of curiosity, you say it’ll run and stop at random spots.....what do you have to do to make it run again?.......do you have to wait?.....give it a push?........Pat
harmonyards posted:AVR conductor posted:Newer can motor, it came from eBay and I tested once I got it. Probably about 8-9 year ago.
Never did any with it till this year when I put it on for my daughter to run on the Christmas platform. It’ll run and stop on random spots.
The head light will stray on and I can’t get it to go again with the direction button or anything.
Out of curiosity, you say it’ll run and stop at random spots.....what do you have to do to make it run again?.......do you have to wait?.....give it a push?........Pat
Sometimes pushing it back-and-forth, Or giving it a little shake on the rails works too sometimes
When it stops and the headlight is still on, but you can get it going again by pushing it back and forth, it sounds like a defective motor with a bad commutator winding.
AVR conductor posted:harmonyards posted:AVR conductor posted:Newer can motor, it came from eBay and I tested once I got it. Probably about 8-9 year ago.
Never did any with it till this year when I put it on for my daughter to run on the Christmas platform. It’ll run and stop on random spots.
The head light will stray on and I can’t get it to go again with the direction button or anything.
Out of curiosity, you say it’ll run and stop at random spots.....what do you have to do to make it run again?.......do you have to wait?.....give it a push?........Pat
Sometimes pushing it back-and-forth, Or giving it a little shake on the rails works too sometimes
Sounds like an electrical contact problem. Respectfully, I’ve worked on around a dozen of these and have never come across a motor with a bad commutator winding.
Steve
AVR conductor posted:harmonyards posted:AVR conductor posted:Newer can motor, it came from eBay and I tested once I got it. Probably about 8-9 year ago.
Never did any with it till this year when I put it on for my daughter to run on the Christmas platform. It’ll run and stop on random spots.
The head light will stray on and I can’t get it to go again with the direction button or anything.
Out of curiosity, you say it’ll run and stop at random spots.....what do you have to do to make it run again?.......do you have to wait?.....give it a push?........Pat
Sometimes pushing it back-and-forth, Or giving it a little shake on the rails works too sometimes
When you give the loco a nudge, or shake on the rails, does it continue on in the direction it was already going? Or does it change direction? If you are running the engine with forward, neutral, and reverse operation, and it stops then continues in the same direction it was going, then as Chuck stated, you most likely have a motor problem. If the loco changes direction when you give it a nudge or a shake, I would think something is tripping it into neutral, like dirty wheels, dirty rollers, or dirty track.....the headlight will stay on in the neutral position. Catching this problem in the act, and a key clue would be if you could see the headlight Just as it comes to a stop. If it blinks momentarily, then comes to a stop, power has been tripped to the engine by whatever means, and the engine has been cycled to its next position (neutral). If it doesn’t blink, and coasts to a stop, then again as Chuck says..more than likely the motor has pooped.....Pat
RideTheRails posted:AVR conductor posted:harmonyards posted:AVR conductor posted:Newer can motor, it came from eBay and I tested once I got it. Probably about 8-9 year ago.
Never did any with it till this year when I put it on for my daughter to run on the Christmas platform. It’ll run and stop on random spots.
The head light will stray on and I can’t get it to go again with the direction button or anything.
Out of curiosity, you say it’ll run and stop at random spots.....what do you have to do to make it run again?.......do you have to wait?.....give it a push?........Pat
Sometimes pushing it back-and-forth, Or giving it a little shake on the rails works too sometimes
Sounds like an electrical contact problem. Respectfully, I’ve worked on around a dozen of these and have never come across a motor with a bad commutator winding.
Steve
Steve, although rare, once in a while at our hobby where we sold hundreds of these starter sets with that particular locomotive, we would see one poop a motor every now and then.....
harmonyards posted:AVR conductor posted:harmonyards posted:AVR conductor posted:Newer can motor, it came from eBay and I tested once I got it. Probably about 8-9 year ago.
Never did any with it till this year when I put it on for my daughter to run on the Christmas platform. It’ll run and stop on random spots.
The head light will stray on and I can’t get it to go again with the direction button or anything.
Out of curiosity, you say it’ll run and stop at random spots.....what do you have to do to make it run again?.......do you have to wait?.....give it a push?........Pat
Sometimes pushing it back-and-forth, Or giving it a little shake on the rails works too sometimes
When you give the loco a nudge, or shake on the rails, does it continue on in the direction it was already going? Or does it change direction? If you are running the engine with forward, neutral, and reverse operation, and it stops then continues in the same direction it was going, then as Chuck stated, you most likely have a motor problem. If the loco changes direction when you give it a nudge or a shake, I would think something is tripping it into neutral, like dirty wheels, dirty rollers, or dirty track.....the headlight will stay on in the neutral position. Catching this problem in the act, and a key clue would be if you could see the headlight Just as it comes to a stop. If it blinks momentarily, then comes to a stop, power has been tripped to the engine by whatever means, and the engine has been cycled to its next position (neutral). If it doesn’t blink, and coasts to a stop, then again as Chuck says..more than likely the motor has pooped.....Pat
I keeps going it same direction as it was before.
AVR conductor posted:harmonyards posted:AVR conductor posted:harmonyards posted:AVR conductor posted:Newer can motor, it came from eBay and I tested once I got it. Probably about 8-9 year ago.
Never did any with it till this year when I put it on for my daughter to run on the Christmas platform. It’ll run and stop on random spots.
The head light will stray on and I can’t get it to go again with the direction button or anything.
Out of curiosity, you say it’ll run and stop at random spots.....what do you have to do to make it run again?.......do you have to wait?.....give it a push?........Pat
Sometimes pushing it back-and-forth, Or giving it a little shake on the rails works too sometimes
When you give the loco a nudge, or shake on the rails, does it continue on in the direction it was already going? Or does it change direction? If you are running the engine with forward, neutral, and reverse operation, and it stops then continues in the same direction it was going, then as Chuck stated, you most likely have a motor problem. If the loco changes direction when you give it a nudge or a shake, I would think something is tripping it into neutral, like dirty wheels, dirty rollers, or dirty track.....the headlight will stay on in the neutral position. Catching this problem in the act, and a key clue would be if you could see the headlight Just as it comes to a stop. If it blinks momentarily, then comes to a stop, power has been tripped to the engine by whatever means, and the engine has been cycled to its next position (neutral). If it doesn’t blink, and coasts to a stop, then again as Chuck says..more than likely the motor has pooped.....Pat
I keeps going it same direction as it was before.
Sounds like as others have already posted, it’s time to open her up and have a looksie around, inspect wiring very closely for bad solder joints, on motor terminals, and on the board. Look carefully at the board for evidence of charring on the pcb. I have repaired quite a few of these with a simple touch of a soldering iron on a bad solder joint...sometimes they just didn’t get it soldered just right....if all looks good, at least that motor is still available straight from the L........
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harmonyards posted:AVR conductor posted:harmonyards posted:AVR conductor posted:harmonyards posted:AVR conductor posted:Newer can motor, it came from eBay and I tested once I got it. Probably about 8-9 year ago.
Never did any with it till this year when I put it on for my daughter to run on the Christmas platform. It’ll run and stop on random spots.
The head light will stray on and I can’t get it to go again with the direction button or anything.
Out of curiosity, you say it’ll run and stop at random spots.....what do you have to do to make it run again?.......do you have to wait?.....give it a push?........Pat
Sometimes pushing it back-and-forth, Or giving it a little shake on the rails works too sometimes
When you give the loco a nudge, or shake on the rails, does it continue on in the direction it was already going? Or does it change direction? If you are running the engine with forward, neutral, and reverse operation, and it stops then continues in the same direction it was going, then as Chuck stated, you most likely have a motor problem. If the loco changes direction when you give it a nudge or a shake, I would think something is tripping it into neutral, like dirty wheels, dirty rollers, or dirty track.....the headlight will stay on in the neutral position. Catching this problem in the act, and a key clue would be if you could see the headlight Just as it comes to a stop. If it blinks momentarily, then comes to a stop, power has been tripped to the engine by whatever means, and the engine has been cycled to its next position (neutral). If it doesn’t blink, and coasts to a stop, then again as Chuck says..more than likely the motor has pooped.....Pat
I keeps going it same direction as it was before.
Sounds like as others have already posted, it’s time to open her up and have a looksie around, inspect wiring very closely for bad solder joints, on motor terminals, and on the board. Look carefully at the board for evidence of charring on the pcb. I have repaired quite a few of these with a simple touch of a soldering iron on a bad solder joint...sometimes they just didn’t get it soldered just right....if all looks good, at least that motor is still available straight from the L........
Ok I’ll take a look. What are you referring to when you say PCB? Again to everyone thanks for the advice and tips
PCB, printed circuit board. This would be the electronic reverse unit.
Steve
RideTheRails posted:PCB, printed circuit board. This would be the electronic reverse unit.
Steve
Ok. That works. Thanks
