Lionel Legacy Daylight GS-4 #4436.....not correct??

The GS 4-8-4's are among my favorites, and, while I do not have one of my GS books

at hand, I do recall that the number boards were relocated during this class's lifetime.

I do not remember offhand the details of such - just that it did happen. (This number

board design was an SP copyright, and when the WP GS64 copies were built during WWII,

they had these applied. As I recall, SP sued to have them made blank on the WP locos.

Or something like that. How very 2012 for the mid-1940's.)

3rd Rail - and I own a few of their pieces - is not my favorite builder, but they do tend

to be a bit more fastidious about some things; such is the nature of small-run brass -

and small-run brass pricing - but they are not infallible. Don't assume that they are always right. 

We do tend to accept inconsistencies on our models relative to a sliding scale: the more

"favorite" a prototype, the less we tolerate errors on a commercial piece. Though the

GS is in my Top Ten, I will accept a -few- more errors there than I will on a NYC Hudson or

Niagara. Almost zero tolerance there; omissions can be OK - wrong is not. 

Paging Hot Water!.............

When the GS4s were built the number boards were either side of the stack. Sometime in the early '40s they were moved back near the center. A few years ago 4449 was rebuilt to the "As Built" configuration. Details changed over the years as did the paint.

As for a "more correct" version some have complained that Lionel's drive rods were too small or something similar.

 3rd Rail released 3 versions recently representing both pre 1945 and post 1946 versions in different paint schemes. All correct for their time.

Pete

First, never mind the location of the Train Number Indicator boards. Lionel's Legacy version of the GS-4 was the "as delivered" version with the small "Southern Pacific Lines" lettering high up on the tender sides, and the Train Indicator Boards in the forward location on the skyline casing. In 1946, the SP stopped using that "Lines" lettering, and had already moved the Train Indicators back midway on the skyline casing. 

Now, the "what's wrong" with the Lionel Legacy GS-4, in in the running gear, i.e. the main connecting rod on each side. Lionel used the running gear mechanism from their earlier GS-2 model, and the main rods on GS-2 locomotives where smaller than the really big main rods on the GS-4/GS-5 class locomotives. 

I should add that, although I have this Lionel Legacy GS-4 model and model in the mid-1950s, I still like how this model sounds and performs. I am still thinking about having my custom painter buddy of mine, remove the "Southern Pacific Lines" lettering from the tender and then re-decal the tender to reflect the "post 1946" large SOUTHERN PACIFIC lettering. However, I still don't know what to do about the forward mounted Train Number Indicators.

Also, for what it's worth, those Train Number Indicators, always reflected the train number. Rarely did the SP operate the "Daylights" on Extra Trains, and when they DID need additional sections of a given passenger train, the Train Number Indicators carried a 

"1-98" or "2-76" indication. As a general policy back in the 1940s & 1950s, the GS class locomotives where not used in "Extra freight" service. There were, however special Second Class fast merchandise/reefer trains on the SP, which used GS class locomotives (especially GS-4/GS-5, due to their size & power), and those were three digit number trains, and those numbers were carried in the Train Indicator Boards.

OK, I know,,,,,too much information!

Apparently Mr. Meixel has NOT seen the new GS-4 models recently shipped from Sunset/3rd Rail!!!!!

1) An "extra" was any train NOT scheduled in the timetable, employee or public. Yes, if the Coast Daylight had, saw a convention group going to San Francisco from LA, than additional cars would have been required, thus a "Second Section" of the Daylight would have been added. So the "main" timetabled Daylight might just show "1-99" in the Train Number Indicators, while the following second section would have "2-99" showing in its Indicators.

2) Yes and very definitely YES.

3) On the SP (other railroads were quite different) many freight trains were actually "scheduled" and listed in the Employee Timetables. However, when increased freight required additional movements, the "Extra Freight Trains" were needed to, say move sugar beets, reefer blocks of just picked produce, increased lumber shipments to the eastern states, etc.. Thus any available motive power was used on those "Extras", but the GS-4/GS-5 class locomotives didn't make the best freight haulers/draggers, due to their 80 inch diameter drivers, which were designed for SPEED, and were rarely if ever used on those extra freight moves.

Thanks Hot Water....very interesting and informative!

I do have two 3rd Rail models, the Big Boy and RDCs. I like them very much but I miss the sounds provided by Lionel. The other issue with the recent Lionel GS-4, not mentioned by Hot Water, is the firemen's side Daylight skirt logo. It's identical to the engineer's side which is incorrect. This is hard to understand since I have the earlier GS-2, which I love, and it has the correct decals. I will wait to see the shipped model before deciding whether to buy.

You should REALLY listen to the latest Sunset/3rd Rail SP GS-4! The sound package from ERR in this latest model is EXCELLENT, with the correct whistle AND horn.

I am interested. Along with the GS-2 I have all 7 of the matching cars. I wonder how well their colors match the 3rd Rail engine? Yes I know you say the 3rd Rail cars are more accurate but I can't afford those. I'm hoping a new Lionel GS-4's colors will match. After seeing how much they changed the PA's colors I'm worried that they won't match.

Then why not get the black, skirtless GS-4, which is also accurate?

You guys blow me away.  I would love to have one of these things, but I am restricted until I can get rid of the giant flanges on the FEF drivers.  I actually saw these things operate when I was a kid, and I do not remember where the number boards were or how big the tender lettering was.  I do remember that 4444 came through the back yard, double headed with an identical Daylight-painted locomotive, pulling green heavyweights.  I do remember it was on 2-rail track.

I love the great color paint scheme! 

The orange on the (2005) Lionel cars is darker than the 3rd Rail engine. The red is pretty close but the passenger cars have more sheen which make it appear more different than it actually is. Your call but I wouldn't let it keep me from considering the 3rd Rail engine.

IIRC your GS-2 and 2005 cars are lettered in the pre '46 paint scheme "SP Lines" like the last Legacy GS-4. No guarantee the next Lionel GS-4 with match those cars either in color or era.

Pete

And your point is???????

That if you are seriously worrying about some truly easily fixed detail, you are in the wrong end of the hobby.  Check out Proto-48.  These models are simply fantastic, given their tinplate origins.  Opinion.