Lionel - new BNSF Tier 4 ready-to-run LionChief engine

Cool, but will a tier 4 ever be made to scale? I would buy that in a heartbeat. Just wondering.

Can you explain the tier nomenclature?

Good looking engine so far!   Nice to see more engines out in LC and LC+ ...   Interested in your opinion on how to power the LC-LC+.    A tech there told me it would be best to run them on DC.  A local Lionel repair guy said the same. They say the AC to DC converter is what goes out first in most cases. So running them on DC is best. Need help to decide what power supply or transformer to purchase.   I have two CW80s already but now Im worried about using them or getting an upgraded AC power supply.

I have a 11X17 around the room layout and I know the power packs that come with LC sets is not big enough.   I see the higher amp/output DC power supplies on Lionel.com, do they have a way to turn them off and on or are they like the set power packs that you just have to unplug?  Or is a ZW type transformer in my future?? 

Jim

Good to see some new tooling for the traditional guys, but those of us in the scale group are getting jealous

philo426 posted:

Can you explain the tier nomenclature?

Levels of emissions for EPA

Canadian National ordered 200 of the new General Electric ET44AC locomotives. 

There could be a CN set someday. 

Andrew

Looks like it will be a nice engine and I'm sure they will be popular.  For me, I will wait for the scale Legacy version.

Awesome - thanks for sharing that! I was wondering what 3D software you guys were using and figured it was that or similar. Do you know what is used for the model renderings that appear in the catalogs? 

Keep up the great work!

I really hope to hear something from Dave Olson on the power situation.   If a Lionel tech and a Lionel repair person tells me to run them on DC only it should interest everyone that owns a LC-LC+ . I'm told its the difference in the engines lasting 6 months to a year on AC without changing the AC to DC converter or much longer if ran on DC so the converter sees no use.  

Jim 

" I'm told its the difference in the engines lasting 6 months to a year on AC without changing the AC to DC converter or much longer if ran on DC so the converter sees no use. "

I suspect this is another folk tale, largely.  Would just use what you have, but keep the voltage well below 18V if possible. LC and LC+ work fine on 15-16 volts.

carsntrains posted:

Good looking engine so far!   Nice to see more engines out in LC and LC+ ...   Interested in your opinion on how to power the LC-LC+.    A tech there told me it would be best to run them on DC.  A local Lionel repair guy said the same. They say the AC to DC converter is what goes out first in most cases. So running them on DC is best. Need help to decide what power supply or transformer to purchase.   I have two CW80s already but now Im worried about using them or getting an upgraded AC power supply.

I have a 11X17 around the room layout and I know the power packs that come with LC sets is not big enough.   I see the higher amp/output DC power supplies on Lionel.com, do they have a way to turn them off and on or are they like the set power packs that you just have to unplug?  Or is a ZW type transformer in my future?? 

carsntrains posted:

I really hope to hear something from Dave Olson on the power situation.   If a Lionel tech and a Lionel repair person tells me to run them on DC only it should interest everyone that owns a LC-LC+ . I'm told its the difference in the engines lasting 6 months to a year on AC without changing the AC to DC converter or much longer if ran on DC so the converter sees no use.  

Interesting question. I can't answer it for the RF version of the LC/LC+ electronics as those were not designed by Lionel Engineering, but typically they were reliable on AC power.

When we made the switch to Bluetooth in the engines, we started from the ground up on the redesign of the electronics. Nothing from the RF was carried over. We life tested many of the boards. I remember we ran one on full blast on AC for so long that it went through two sets of bearings in the die-cast trucks and still kept kicking.

Keep your AC power at or below 18V and they'll last for a long time. Also, if you go for a Postwar ZW, make sure you add in the circuit protection.

Dave Olson posted:

carsntrains posted:

Good looking engine so far!   Nice to see more engines out in LC and LC+ ...   Interested in your opinion on how to power the LC-LC+.    A tech there told me it would be best to run them on DC.  A local Lionel repair guy said the same. They say the AC to DC converter is what goes out first in most cases. So running them on DC is best. Need help to decide what power supply or transformer to purchase.   I have two CW80s already but now Im worried about using them or getting an upgraded AC power supply.

I have a 11X17 around the room layout and I know the power packs that come with LC sets is not big enough.   I see the higher amp/output DC power supplies on Lionel.com, do they have a way to turn them off and on or are they like the set power packs that you just have to unplug?  Or is a ZW type transformer in my future?? 

carsntrains posted:

I really hope to hear something from Dave Olson on the power situation.   If a Lionel tech and a Lionel repair person tells me to run them on DC only it should interest everyone that owns a LC-LC+ . I'm told its the difference in the engines lasting 6 months to a year on AC without changing the AC to DC converter or much longer if ran on DC so the converter sees no use.  

Interesting question. I can't answer it for the RF version of the LC/LC+ electronics as those were not designed by Lionel Engineering, but typically they were reliable on AC power.

When we made the switch to Bluetooth in the engines, we started from the ground up on the redesign of the electronics. Nothing from the RF was carried over. We life tested many of the boards. I remember we ran one on full blast on AC for so long that it went through two sets of bearings in the die-cast trucks and still kept kicking.

Keep your AC power at or below 18V and they'll last for a long time. Also, if you go for a Postwar ZW, make sure you add in the circuit protection.

Dave, 

    The two LC+ and 4 LC engines I have are pre-Bluetooth.  Having the Lionel tech and a Lionel repair person tell me that kind of spooked me.   I have dealt with changing AC to DC working with LED Christmas lights. Its been a struggle for years. There is a BLOB in the cord that changes the AC to DC ..  Some of the best commercial string lights had that "BLOB" melting and even catching on fire. BAD.... and when you see half of an LED light string out.  Its due to the inverter/converter going bad.  I buy the best available and they only last 3 or 4 years, after you weed out the ones that quit within weeks.  

So at the very least I know that what you have tested since Bluetooth has been added is reliable on AC.  

Thanks! 

Jim 

Thanks Dave!   Is there any chance that the set can be released with LC Plus electronics?  Here on this forum, there have been comments indicating an interest in LC+ technology in a RTR set.   This first Tier 4 set would be a great set to be first to add LC+ technology, I would certainly pay more for LC+ in this set.   BTW, I have pre-ordered this set with LC electronics.   -Ken

Dave,I second kens comment on the lc+ being added. I realize this is going to be a starter set so cost is a consideration, but this is too nice a set to not have the LC plus added. This engine looks like it will be very nice and right at home along side our lionmaster offerings. SO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. put in the LC + electronics. If this engine will not have the cruies control offered by LC+ I will pass on this set. I run most times by myself on my small layout, and having cruise is imperative. Its like ron popile sad JUST SET IT AND FORGET IT. With out it you constantly have to ajust the speed of a loco. I have sold off some very detailed scale engines because they did not have cruise. Mind you I am a legacy/dcs guy. I just got my first LC+ steamer and the norfolk and western rectifier and cant wait to get more of these engines. They are fantastic,bullet proof and very resonable on my wallet. The new tier 4 engine begs for LC PLUS electronics.  So please please ask ryan to concider it. Thanks roger.

Dave,

Also can you tell me that you will get rid of the stamped metal frames and go with diecast and wire handrails? 

The stamped metal frame is what is keeping me from buying lionchief diesels. The tier 4 would be a winner IMO. 

Dave

+1 on the idea of a LC+ set. 

I think they would prove to be very popular.

Dave,

   Ken O Scale has this right, add the LC+ and you have a winner.

PCRR/Dave

A couple pages up someone was asking about ac or dc operation and I was going to share what I know. First of all if you look at the main circuit board for the lionchief locomotives and you follow where the in from the tracks go (this will be a black and red wire typically) you will see that the first thing they go to is a black rectangular box with a side slanted which is a "bridge rectifier".

Now what is a bridge rectifier you ask? It quite literally and its only purpose in life is to convert AC current into DC current. If you dont believe me look it up. It has 4 wires to it. The two coming in (pins 2 and 3) will either say AC on it or have a sine wave logo on it meaning AC. Then the other two out going (pins 1 and 4) will have a + and a - for DC. Long story short a bridge rectifier chops the ac sine wave apart and puts the negative wave as positive and boom you have the worlds worst dc 18v power. You can tell its doing a bad job because a led headlight has a bad flicker to it. Its not a calm flat 18v dc. Its all wavey and looks like a waffle cut french fry.  Its trying hard to make dc out of ac and failing. Now put that same engine on the wall pack power supply that came with LC engines and wow no flicker, thats because all the fancy conversion to dc is already done. The dc goes straight through the rectifier and into the circuitry as quality dc meaning your led headlights are flicker free. 

So long story short lionchief engines work and are more designed to run on dc power. If you are running multiple trains you will need something bigger than the 40w wall pack. I would suggest using something like the SkyRC eFuel 30a 480w DC power supply. Its $110 ish and would be more than plenty of power. Any power supply above 100w is typically going to need fan cooling but what is cool (pun) about this one is the fan only kicks on when it is needed. Anyway just wanted to clear things up. I know everyone seems to think that a track layout has to be AC and that is not the case with Lionchief.

Blair posted:

 

 

Long story short a bridge rectifier chops the ac sine wave apart and puts the negative wave as positive and boom you have the worlds worst dc 18v power. You can tell its doing a bad job because a led headlight has a bad flicker to it. Its not a calm flat 18v dc. Its all wavey and looks like a waffle cut french fry.  Its trying hard to make dc out of ac and failing.

 

 I know everyone seems to think that a track layout has to be AC and that is not the case with Lionchief.

1-  that's why they invented capacitors!

2- most people on this forum know that Lionchief/ Lc plus run on DC and AC is not necessary, but can run on either...

Train Nut posted:

Blair posted:

 

 

Long story short a bridge rectifier chops the ac sine wave apart and puts the negative wave as positive and boom you have the worlds worst dc 18v power. You can tell its doing a bad job because a led headlight has a bad flicker to it. Its not a calm flat 18v dc. Its all wavey and looks like a waffle cut french fry.  Its trying hard to make dc out of ac and failing.

 

 I know everyone seems to think that a track layout has to be AC and that is not the case with Lionchief.

1-  that's why they invented capacitors!

2- most people on this forum know that Lionchief/ Lc plus run on DC and AC is not necessary, but can run on either...

2- I didn't ... but I do now!