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I would disagree with this premise. Williams was lucky to find a buyer for its product line while Weaver did not and MTH is now just a shell of once it once was. I would argue that Bachmann's purchase of Williams allowed the line to survive more or less intact for at least another 10 years and the current lack of production of the line is more a function of the market than anything Bachmann did to hurt the brand. The integration of former K-Line tooling into the brand was a nice bonus even if the MSRP was more in line with what we were seeing for command control locomotives from other manufacturers.
One of the hallmarks of Williams over the years was that Jerry Williams successfully navigated the transition from a reproduction manufacturer or Lionel, Marx, and Kusan tooling into a producer of decent budget priced scale locomotives. In that sense perhaps, Bachmann dropped the ball for not being as flexible as Williams. However, the overall the market for O gauge and O scale trains has been a diminishing one for several years now. It is also difficult for a company to sell a new product when nearly new or new product can be found on the secondary market for less than that new price.
I have soft spot for Williams brass. Great budget product and an awesome starting point for modelers wanting to kit bash or super detail. But like many, I didn't buy new Williams products after 2007 or so and that is part of why we are where we are with the product line.
Jonathan,
Thanks for the response to my post. I was hoping it would generate some discussion about Bachmann vs Williams.
You make some good points, but I think Bachmann's price strategy definitely hurt the Williams brand. Those of us that have been in the hobby for a while knew Williams products were available at 30-50% off MSRP, but not new people or those with less experience. No one would buy a Williams engine at the same price point as a fully featured MTH or Lionel product.
I think we can all agree that the loss of Williams is a big loss for the hobby, especially those without big budgets. Any other opinions? I'd like to hear them.
John
I think @GG1 4877 pretty much nailed it. I can't comprehend Bachmann's pricing strategy - IMO, a Bachmann engine should cost about half of their current MSRP to account for the lack of sophisticated electronics and lower level of detail. Can anyone speculate on their logic?
Another thing that probably hurt them is the blowout pricing that Trainworld was able to do - I think it created a mental baseline of what WBB items "should" cost. This isn't Bachmann's "fault", but it makes it harder to sell their product.
It also seems like it should be fairly easy for Bachmann to continue to produce existing items at a more attractive price point, since there's no need for product design and they have relationships with manufacturing facilities. It's a mystery why they don't do it.
Williams models were what got me from just running my grandpa's postwar trains into the modern realm. I agree that the Bachmann price structure was ridiculous and the sticker shock probably scared a lot of people off. The lack of command control was the nail in the coffin. With just basic TMCC I think many of their products would remain a viable part of the market, but competing with Lionchief and DCS equipped starter sets as an analog only company is tough in today's world. As a side note, Bachmann has the tooling for K-Line's excellent Bombardier commuter cars which I guess we'll never see again...
MSRP is a "suggested" price and retailers can charge above or below that depending on what the market will bear. There is a business strategy to have a MSRP higher than the expected selling price at the retail level so customers feel like they are getting a deal. This might be Bachmann's strategy; MSRP near their competitor's price but street values that make the customer leave smiling on the deal they got. I also don't think new people to the hobby are going to Bachmann's web site where they see only the MSRP. They are seeing retailer advertising or walking into a hobby shop where they see "50% below MSRP".
Would be interesting to know if Bachmann has a MAP (minimum advertised price) policy to ensure retailers are not advertising at too low a price.
@CAPPilot posted:MSRP is a "suggested" price and retailers can charge above or below that depending on what the market will bear. There is a business strategy to have a MSRP higher than the expected selling price at the retail level so customers feel like they are getting a deal. This might be Bachmann's strategy; MSRP near their competitor's price but street values that make the customer leave smiling on the deal they got. I also don't think new people to the hobby are going to Bachmann's web site where they see only the MSRP. They are seeing retailer advertising or walking into a hobby shop where they see "50% below MSRP".
Would be interesting to know if Bachmann has a MAP (minimum advertised price) policy to ensure retailers are not advertising at too low a price.
I get being able to discount off of MSRP, but when a 50% discount is needed just to be competitive, it's ridiculous and nonsensical, especially when their MSRP on other scales is in line with the competition. Good question about MAP.
@Will Ebbert posted:Williams models were what got me from just running my grandpa's postwar trains into the modern realm. I agree that the Bachmann price structure was ridiculous and the sticker shock probably scared a lot of people off. The lack of command control was the nail in the coffin. With just basic TMCC I think many of their products would remain a viable part of the market, but competing with Lionchief and DCS equipped starter sets as an analog only company is tough in today's world. As a side note, Bachmann has the tooling for K-Line's excellent Bombardier commuter cars which I guess we'll never see again...
I didn't know about the Bombardier cars - that's a real shame.
Song something discounted that heavily is kind of concerning in my opinion. And their prices were on the back cover of every issue of CTT for many years so newbies saw MSRP there.
