Exactly what Lionel trackside sensor?

I can't get at the box right now, but it is this one.

LIONEL 6-14111 153IR CONTROLLER INFRARED SENSOR TRAIN LAYOUT ACCESSORY

Figure 6 in this manual shows the wiring to a gateman.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ents/71-4111-250.pdf

Thanks for the info. I was happy to find that section yesterday when I tried to wire it up, but as soon as I applied power the gateman turned right on and nothing seemed to stop it regardless of what I put in from of the sensor.

It's quite possible the 153IR sensor needs to be either adjusted or repaired.

OK, this was new in the box, and I did re-adjust the settings per the instructions. So I guess I will return it to the hobby shop.

The sensor has two connections. NC and NO. NO means normally open. That's the connection you should use for the mechanism.  NC is normally closed and will power up all the time until the sensor is triggered and then turns off.

OK I will try that. I thought I might have in desperation but I will take a look again.

Nothing is working. Can you visually see some sort of glow from the infra red if it is working? I re-traced everything, and used the NO setting. But the gateman is always on. Is there a problem trying to wire up an old gateman from the early '50's?

Would it be possible for you to wire a simple light bulb to the sensor terminals to verify if the sensor is good or bad?

Jeff,

If you could post a snapshot of the terminal boards on your 153IR I will try to help you sort this out. I need to see the terminology used and the positions. Also, a pic of the front of the manual that came with your unit.

Be aware that there were several versions made, some with wiring differences within a version.

Dave

Thanks for the last two posts. I will do both yet this evening.

Actually I don't know if you could wire up a bulb. There are three wires that come off the sensor. Power, ground and the NO 0r.......

@Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

I am trying to wire up my early '50's gate man to the Lionel trackside infra red sensor. So far no luck, and I have traced my wires several times. Is there a way to test the sensor by itself? Or is this gateman too old for the modern circuitry?

The Gateman is not “too old”. I have one, same vintage, wired to a Lionel IR sensor. Works fine.

@ToledoEd posted:

The Gateman is not “too old”. I have one, same vintage, wired to a Lionel IR sensor. Works fine.

Gee that is encouraging. Maybe I need your assessment of the correct wires to the gateman.

Jeff, I’ll be glad to help. I’ll get back to you tomorrow.

@ToledoEd posted:

Jeff, I’ll be glad to help. I’ll get back to you tomorrow.

OK Happy New Year and I will post pictures right now.

@Dtrainmaster posted:

Jeff,

If you could post a snapshot of the terminal boards on your 153IR I will try to help you sort this out. I need to see the terminology used and the positions. Also, a pic of the front of the manual that came with your unit.

Be aware that there were several versions made, some with wiring differences within a version.

Dave

Pictures posted

Looks like your common wire (U terminal) is not fully inserted.   The orange spring loaded keeper is fully out and should be inserted partially if the wire is being properly pinched.  It should look like your A terminal  

Jeff, according to the information that I have, your 153IR version has the "U" and "ACC GND" terminals tied together internally. And the "U" terminal is connected to the internal relay's COM. Therefore, it switches "U" between the "NO" and "NC" terminals.
Assuming "U" is Common and "A" is Power, it switches transformer common, Not the hot side.

I can't make out the difference between the non-red wire colors at your Gateman connections.
If the light is meant to stay on, the RED wire from "ACC PWR" should go to the lamp and coil shared terminal. The other lamp terminal to the "ACC GND". The other coil terminal to "NO".

What is the actual model number of your Gateman?

Dave

I will pick this all up tomorrow thanks guys!!!

@Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

Gee that is encouraging. Maybe I need your assessment of the correct wires to the gateman.

So I have now re-inserted the wire for the ground, and it is not working. I am sending pictures of what I just took. As for my gateman it is the original 145 gateman, and in this case it is from the early '50's. The wires must be mis matched, as this present configuration does not make the light go on or off, etc.

At the Gateman terminals:
Move the WHT "ACC GND" wire to the tab that has the BLK wire soldered it.
Move the GRN "NO" wire to where the WHT wire was.
i.e., swap the WHT and GRN wires.
This is assuming that the RED wire is connected to the lamp and coil shared terminal.

Dave

OK, when you say This is assuming that the RED wire is connected to the lamp and coil shared terminal am I to believe there is a wire tying both terminals together?

Also, are you thinking that the sensor will actually work.

Here is how the Gateman terminals need to match the IR terminals:

OK thanks for the diagram. I will see what happens.

Steims, that will not work.

What is being missed here (and what I stated earlier) is that Jeff's version of the 153IR is switching the common. (Based on the documentation that I have)

Yes Jeff, they have to share a connection since there are only 3 tabs.

Yes I recall you saying that. Now I am pretty ignorant on electrical, so your schematic  doesn't help this novice. Maybe you can enhance that color picture that was posted on the gateman. I just hope this all makes the IFS work.

Thanks for all this input.

What type of track are you using? The 153IR is sort of an advanced solution for a simple accessory.  If using FasTrack just get a accessory activation track. Then it's pretty simple wiring

Jeff, I would rather help you figure this out, not just make a complete diagram, because there could be hidden problems.

I think at this point we need to separate the two devices to verify that they function correctly on their own.
Let's check the Gateman first. Be sure it is isolated from anything else, like the track or other metal accessories.
Connect two wires to the transformer. One on the Common post, the other on either the Variable (track) post or an Accessory post (14V).
Now look at the schematic. There are three ways the two wires can be connected.

Label the tabs on the Gateman 1, 2, and 3. Then try each way and record which does x, y, or z.
1 to 2:
2 to3:
3 to 1:
x) Lamp glows bright
y) gateman operates correctly
z) both operate weakly

You already mentioned that the Gateman itself will operate. If the lamp doesn't, in at least one scenario, lamp is bad or there is a bad connection. This needs to be fixed before we troubleshoot any further.

Dave

Here is the wiring diagram you looking for.   It shows the orientation of the terminals on the Gateman and how to wire to IR.   These newer gateman appear to be wired same as post war.

@Dtrainmaster posted:

Jeff, I would rather help you figure this out, not just make a complete diagram, because there could be hidden problems.

I think at this point we need to separate the two devices to verify that they function correctly on their own.
Let's check the Gateman first. Be sure it is isolated from anything else, like the track or other metal accessories.
Connect two wires to the transformer. One on the Common post, the other on either the Variable (track) post or an Accessory post (14V).
Now look at the schematic. There are three ways the two wires can be connected.

Label the tabs on the Gateman 1, 2, and 3. Then try each way and record which does x, y, or z.
1 to 2:
2 to3:
3 to 1:
x) Lamp glows bright
y) gateman operates correctly
z) both operate weakly

You already mentioned that the Gateman itself will operate. If the lamp doesn't, in at least one scenario, lamp is bad or there is a bad connection. This needs to be fixed before we troubleshoot any further.

Dave

OK Dave: I will try and do so tonight. I can tell you the bulb does work as I was fiddling around a while back and the bulb did light. I will work on it tonight. Thanks.

@Steims posted:

Here is the wiring diagram you looking for.   It shows the orientation of the terminals on the Gateman and how to wire to IR.   These newer gateman appear to be wired same as post war.

 

Yes I used that diagram, but the gateman turned on and never went off, so IF could be bad. We shall see.

By the way to all of you. When I get this to work right, I am powering it with a lionel transformer, but I am setting all this up on a G gauge layout. Nothing fancy just thought it would be neat to take this old gateman and make it work.

Jeff, when you say the Gateman turns on, I assume you mean he exits the shack but never returns (off).  Have you turned the timing button down completely? (Battery Box conceals the two controllers). Pic #2)  Maybe the issue is with the timing setting on the 153IR Controller sensor.  I use the Auxilary Power Supply Terminals  rather than the the "ACC PWR" terminal (Pic #1) The smaller red wire in the Battery Box terminal powers a light in the shack.  Since I use LCS modules to turn on accessories, the light lets me know the shack (IR Sensor) is on.  Hope this helps.

@Dtrainmaster posted:

Jeff, I would rather help you figure this out, not just make a complete diagram, because there could be hidden problems.

I think at this point we need to separate the two devices to verify that they function correctly on their own.
Let's check the Gateman first. Be sure it is isolated from anything else, like the track or other metal accessories.
Connect two wires to the transformer. One on the Common post, the other on either the Variable (track) post or an Accessory post (14V).
Now look at the schematic. There are three ways the two wires can be connected.

Label the tabs on the Gateman 1, 2, and 3. Then try each way and record which does x, y, or z.
1 to 2:
2 to3:
3 to 1:
x) Lamp glows bright
y) gateman operates correctly
z) both operate weakly

You already mentioned that the Gateman itself will operate. If the lamp doesn't, in at least one scenario, lamp is bad or there is a bad connection. This needs to be fixed before we troubleshoot any further.

Dave

After a internet outage in the entire county, I am back online. I have successfully wired the gateman for the light and the operation.

The IF sensor is always on.

Jeff, congrats! 

Now to get the IF sensor to work.