Lionel Trains versus MTH Trains?

I think you are going to get a lot of strongly biased opinions one way or the other, that don't really illuminate anything.  I get it that you are just curious, but these sorts of discussions rarely turn out amicable and informative.  And most of us don't care. We just buy what we prefer, one way or the other. And the two companies are no longer truly directly competing in most ways, having very different business models.

And by the way, do sprung trucks have any functional benefit? I don't know, but I've heard opinions both ways.

You have too much time on your hands to come up with this type of question! Lionel has been around for a lot longer than that other company and didn't ever steal anybody's else's design!!! Without going political, I'll just say that I have ZERO love or care for the person or his products due to the ugliness and his own greed for the way he treated the Lionel Corp. for his own aggrandizement! Besides, his products look like crap compared to what actually looked like rolling on the rails, kinda of like some of Menard's stuff!

I have lots of both, but I tend to lean a bit to Lionel nowadays.

#1: Our modular club has more issues running MTH than Lionel, so when I take stuff to a show, it's almost always Lionel equipment.

#2: Lionel will be here for the long term, and they continue to innovate.

#3: Lionel is richer in features, and especially in steam, they have the clear sound advantage in most cases.

I will say, mechanically I would give MTH the edge in most cases, they're drivetrains have been far more trouble-free than Lionel over the years.

While Lionel was reissuing the same old retreads, MTH was bringing entirely new Scale items to the three rail market.  What words did you utter when you first saw Mike's Challenger.  I remember my complete surprise and shock.  Lionel even used Mike as a supplier for scale engines while they were trying to play catch-up.

I have to admit, I hate with a passion the sounds coming from all of the new engines. cars and where ever else they emit from.  I have disliked sounds from the first time I heard the Lionel Chicken car many years ago.

For price and value, hands down MTH.  However, even though I do not buy Lionel there is no question they are a survivor company.  Mike, from the Reading T-1 (in a Lionel box) set the standard for what we have come to expect from the new generation of Scale engines.  He certainly ranks with Cowan for quality, innovation and devotion to the industry.

That does not negate my unhappiness in July, 2020 when the announcement was made.

Because I think MTH has an important place in three rail history I have purchased a lot of the prototype and engineering samples that were brought to market early on.  I am not talking about all the stuff that was left sitting on the shelves  when they had the big auction where people thought they were getting 'the real thing' but mostly got warranty replacement items with no insides.

Anyway, I am totally happy with my Lionel Postwar collection because it represents the best of that time period.  I am happy with my Williams Collection because for the time period it moved the industry forward and gave Mike the start he needed to make his contributions.  The Weaver/Mike connection also was a step forward from the Williams/Mike relationship.

Connecting the dots from the late 80's through 2020 it is always Mike/MTH time after time either behind the scenes or leading in the fore ground driving this industry forward.

Steam sounds- Lionel

Diesel sounds - MTH

Build quality - MTH.  Older Korean built Lionel is on a par with MTH

Operating accessories and cars- MTH

Scale freight cars are comparable between the two.

Scale Cabooses- MTH

I'm very happy with the 990 Legacy System . I have not used DCS to comment.

I do enjoy operating MTH engines conventionally via the Lionel TPC , and they run very " command like" .

Let's be grateful we ( still) have both. MTH 's special offerings have been fantastic. Lionel acquiring some of the MTH tooling has allowed other great models to be produced , instead of the tooling sitting in the back of a warehouse collecting dust.

Just going to say, my rule of thumb is, when I hear squeaking, check the Weaver cars first.

The hard part is remembering which Weaver cars I replaced the trucks. Both Lionel and MTH make them.

I will always be a Lionel fan. That being said they have many negatives since they moved from Michigan. Poor quality control, wrong shade of color or wrong color entirely. Prices that make me shake my head. However, if both offered the same item, Lionel would be my first choice.

Based on my experience with brand-new products, I have to say neither one. I've had much better luck taking my  older locos and having them upgraded to either DCS or TMCC. They may not be the latest/greatest available, but they run. Over the last few years, I have also bought several older MTH locos (some new-old-stock and some used) equipped with PS2 and Pittman motors, and have had zero issues with them. I can't say the same for the new locos I have purchased (both brands), all of which have been returned.

@BlueComet400 posted:

Based on my experience with brand-new products, I have to say neither one. I've had much better luck taking my  older locos and having them upgraded to either DCS or TMCC.

If you're looking at the whole universe, then I would also go with older MTH locomotives, especially steam.  They were bulletproof, and made great upgrade candidates.  As you say, the fact that older steam typically came with a quality Pittman motor just is icing on the cake.

I buy based on prototype. Brand doesn’t enter my decision. None are perfect anyway.

Pete

I really like the Imperial Railking line. You get more bang for your buck than LC+ 2.0. However, I have numerous of Lionel and MTH and like them all. Figured I would chime in before this topic gets closed.

Over the years I’ve bought an equal number of locomotives from both. Neither brand has been trouble free but I have had more trouble with MTH than Lionel. I will agree older MTH steam drive trains were almost bullet proof.

My primary interest recently has been steam and MTH has seemed to be more trouble free overall than many Lionel steamers in the chassis and gears arena. So many Lionel products have required rebuilds from some of our talented members (harmonyards and others) and these problems have been around for years, yet Lionel has done little to address them in many cases. I gather that these issues still crop up with alarming regularity in some $1200+ locomotives. Sad.

Will agree that Lionel's steam sounds are 2nd to none but my MTH locomotives are pretty nice too.

Look back 22 years when PS2 first came out - It really was/is "The Best Way to Run a Railroad" in many aspects. DCS had features that Legacy still doesn't have although both offer more that I was ever able to fully comprehend or utilize!  Lol

Am thankful that we still have both however and we're still in "The Golden Age" of 3 rail model trains!

these sorts of discussions rarely turn out amicable and informative.  And most of us don't care. We just buy what we prefer, one way or the other.

And by the way, do sprung trucks have any functional benefit? I don't know, but I've heard opinions both ways.

I respectfully disagree with you on both counts.  Based on the responses after your response, there can be some real insight here and I genuinely am interested in the good in both companies.  I did not post this to brag about how great I think MTH and my collection is.  And sprung trucks matter to me just like rivets count to rivet counters.

Mike

@stubbsO posted:

You have too much time on your hands

Actually, like a lot of people, I don't spend enough time on this forum because I work full time and, between working on my layout and trying to squeeze time for an occasional Harley ride, not to mention the precious time I need to spend with my family, this question was important enough to me to put it out there.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I have lots of both, but I tend to lean a bit to Lionel nowadays.

#1: Our modular club has more issues running MTH than Lionel, so when I take stuff to a show, it's almost always Lionel equipment.

#2: Lionel will be here for the long term, and they continue to innovate.

#3: Lionel is richer in features, and especially in steam, they have the clear sound advantage in most cases.

I will say, mechanically I would give MTH the edge in most cases, they're drivetrains have been far more trouble-free than Lionel over the years.

Thank you, GRJ, this is exactly the type of response/info I was seeking.  The richer in features part interests me.  In fact, I've been considering buying a Lionel engine but I'm a little cautious because I only have DCS.

@B rad posted:

I really like the Imperial Railking line. You get more bang for your buck than LC+ 2.0. However, I have numerous of Lionel and MTH and like them all. Figured I would chime in before this topic gets closed.

Why would this topic get closed?  There are great comments here, like your comment about liking them all.  I have Williams engines, too and they have a place in my collection because they are work horses that I can just run for hours on end and I've heard that museums like to use them for the same reason.

I have to say that I also much prefer the 'stainless' plating that MTH has had for years mostly on their Santa Fe diesels.

Lionel didn't offer this feature for a long time until the Legacy F3's and even then the finish is rather lackluster compared to the Premiere diesels for MTH.

MTH's catalogs didn't depict this feature visually and unless you saw them in person you had no idea how nice they looked!

I have several MTH Santa Fe's (Red & Yellow) with the stainless plating in HO that are quite old - 12 -14 years?

These Premiere ABBA's are spectacular and have replaced my earlier Lionel set.

I see some answers praising Lionel for their sounds, which makes me curious: what advantage do you give Lionel for sounds?  I would say MTH is almost always better than Lionel for sounds because Lionel is so formulaic.  Even the Legacy Promontory engines have radio crackle when the crew talks (although there were clearly no radios in the 1860s!).  I have the MTH Lo-V subways and I love the authentic New York sounds.  Lionel engines are great for many reasons (and they also have their flaws, just like MTH) but on sound specifically I'd always expect MTH to have more authentic and interesting sounds.  Lionel seems to have one or two voice actors on retainer who keep reciting the same scripts over and over again with the engine numbers changed.

@BC1989 posted:

I see some answers praising Lionel for their sounds, which makes me curious: what advantage do you give Lionel for sounds?  I would say MTH is almost always better than Lionel for sounds because Lionel is so formulaic.

Well, I did emphasize the steam sounds as being more of a standout.  Since I seldom use the crew talk except to entertain visitors, I am more tuned into the whistle, bell, and the chuff for steam.  For most steam, the MTH sounds don't come close to some of the better sounds with Legacy steam.

I had the MTH 2017 Premier Big Boy, not a cheap engine.  The sounds of the Lionel Vision Line Big Boy put that to shame.  The MTH whistle sounded like a wounded cow, and certainly nothing like a steam whistle!  The Legacy whistle, OTOH, sounds so realistic you think you're there.

I remember many yeas ago when I was a retailer I had brough a new diesel home from teh shop to test on the floor layout. It was a WIlliams or Frank's Roundhouse and after a loop or two around we hear this strange man's voice utter something unintelligible out of nowhere!  Who said that?  Lol.  It was a surprise addition from the engine and very novel and effective.

Since then however, I'd rather not have any crew sounds and some of lionel's are truly obnoxious IMO. Perhaps it's the particular dialect used but I turn them off, especially in all my steam locomotives.