Lionel variations - 2456, 3469 ore dump car

Not too surprising. Too easy to duplicate post-factory, too, although it's more common and makes more sense to modify the 3459 with the later trucks.

Let’s not forget that Lionel used parts until the were gone so it’s possible for an early version to have coil couplers. 

Mike 

Not long ago I put a pair of electromagnetic trucks on a 3520 searchlight car because they were the only spare trucks with a roller I had that were ready for use. (The original trucks were gone)

It is all too easy to swap most metal trucks and coupler assemblies around for them to count as variations.
Many plastic trucks are riveted in place, making them more difficult to swap.

Let’s not forget that Lionel used parts until the were gone so it’s possible for an early version to have coil couplers. 

A train set I recently purchased from the original owner came with several 6454  series boxcars that had staple end and bar end trucks mounted on one car. I am fairly certain they left the factory that way.

The responses I've read are pretty much what I expected.  But's it always good to get confirmation for something I may be saying publicly in the future.

In regard to that, I am writing up material for a seminar at the TCA convention in Warwick at the end of June about cars and locomotives in the early postwar Lionel catalogs.  This will be for the period 1946 to 1949.  As I finish draft material, I'll be throwing some of it out to this group for criticism.

Is there a group files area where one can post Excel spreadsheet data.  I'm making up one page for each year showing all of the car types cataloged or otherwise lnown for that year with data about which train sets they were in.  I'd like to share that but don't know how.

Is any one reading this likely to be at the convention ?

mlaughlinnyc posted:

The responses I've read are pretty much what I expected.  But's it always good to get confirmation for something I may be saying publicly in the future.

In regard to that, I am writing up material for a seminar at the TCA convention in Warwick at the end of June about cars and locomotives in the early postwar Lionel catalogs.  This will be for the period 1946 to 1949.  As I finish draft material, I'll be throwing some of it out to this group for criticism.

Is there a group files area where one can post Excel spreadsheet data.  I'm making up one page for each year showing all of the car types cataloged or otherwise lnown for that year with data about which train sets they were in.  I'd like to share that but don't know how.

Is any one reading this likely to be at the convention ?

 

I agree with Rob that replacing the coil couplers with the newer magnetic type coupler was quite common especially as many sliding shoes were ripped off by the early post-war O27 switches.  But another possibility is that your car was initially bought in 1949 as an add-on to an existing early post-war Lionel set with all coil couplers.  Those sets came with an uncoupling/unload track section with no electromagnet (#1019 or RCS).  The owner would not have been able to remotely uncouple that car directly so the dealer could have replaced the magnetic couplers with the earlier coil couplers for them.  The reason I suggest that as a possibility is that coincidently I received that same car as a Christmas gift in 1949 as an add on to my 1947 O27 starter set which came with all coil couplers but I only had the #1019.  I didn’t have my couplers replaced though as I figured out that I could uncouple that car by opening the back coupler on the car ahead of it.  The following Christmas I received a #6019 uncoupling track and some #1121 switches.  That’s how I know about the sliding shoe problem!

Assuming that the dump car bodies are interchangeable, another possibility is that the car came from the factory as a #3459 and some previous owner replaced the dump car body with the #3469 body.  He probably didn’t like that silver body it came with and threw it away!  

BTW I really enjoyed those seminars at last year’s TCA convention in Pittsburgh but this year’s convention conflicts with our 50^th anniversary trip to Akaka so I won’t be there to hear your presentation. 

Bill

I thought I read it somewhere, like in an Intro in a Greenberg's book, that after the switch to Magnetic couplers, Lionel  found their left over inventory of coil couplers and threw it in their production line in 1949. Does this sound familiar to anyone else?

I wouldn't say They "found" the inventory.  More likely it was there as the result of sensible manufacturing decisions and needed to be liquidated. 

Here's how I wopuld look at it from the perspective of a manufacturing engineer in 1948.  There is a certain number of cars that must have coil couplers, and I can't be sure what that number will be.  I know there is another use for the surplus but without this item certain end products cannot be produced.  Therefore, I produce more than the maximum possible number that might be needed, knowing that there is another use for these item.s

The assembly lines didn't really care as long as they could put together a finished product that met the functional specs of the catalog.

The same phenomenon probably explains my odd 3359 and an odd 1938 motor configuration for a 1666.  I think that the net result is that it is impossible to enumerate all of teh variatoins of many Lionel products and that we will never know whether we have found all variations that exist.

It's interesting that for many years, Lionel train enthusiasts had the idea that Lionel was very precise about how their product was put together, and today a lot of people think that they just slapped together any old thing.
I'd guess that most of the kludged together stuff we see today was put together outside the factory.

It seems likely to me that any apparently non-standard combination would be from the Lionel factory only if it could be explained by using up inventory from a prior year substantially altering performance and/or apperance of the item..  For any other combination, and there are many, I would agree with Burtle..

I found the reference about a few of what was termed "exceptions within the framework." In the prologue to Greenberg's Guide to Lionel Trains, 1945-1969, Vol III, Sets, First edition, (page 9) ". . . coil couplers can be found on some 1949 production . . ." I cannot find this in the same book, second edition.