There's a few things I want but not at the prices they're charging.
If you're charging $ 1,100 dollars for a 4 car set, don't include an SP style caboose with snap in platforms.
And there's nothing for someone who wants to add traditional sized cars to their consist. No 6436 style hopper that you can fill with M & Ms to run around the tree. No tank car lettered for the local gas station. No "State of Maine" boxcar.
Lionel is cataloging "rail porn". High end items that few people can afford and few people - not necessarily the people who can afford them - can run.
"Rail porn" is akin to "appliance porn". "Appliance porn" is putting chef grade appliances on the sales floor to get people into the store to buy real world appliances that they can use.
@DaddyChooChoo posted:I got excited when I saw the Heislers, then was shocked that the price, $1699.99. Must be some serious engineering on that tiny loco going on...
That was very surprising. And all the road names. I'm sure they'll get a couple of orders for them at least. But not from me.
Nothing that interests me. It's just as well. Prices much too high for my wallet. I'll be happy with the beautiful trains I already have.
MELGAR
I am going to bet that Lionel has a lot of production cancellations from this catalog.
@Dave 69 GTEL posted:Not much. A whole section on battery operated kiddie trains? I think Polar Express has been milked for all it's worth. Star Wars trains? Really? I don't see much. Possibly the Legacy Lionel Lines Scout steam locomotive would be fun but the passenger cars offered would knock it up from the O-36 part of my railroad to the O-54. I'd like to get more use out of the O-36 with something like that locomotive.
My pet peeve with Lionel for years now - offering an attractive locomotive that will run down to O-36 and at the same time offering a matching passenger or freight car set that will only run on a minimum O-54 track.
Very frustrating for those with smaller curved layouts who would like to buy both.
@Dave 69 GTEL posted:That was very surprising. And all the road names. I'm sure they'll get a couple of orders for them at least. But not from me.
It's one of the few Legacy items that will run on O31. I wonder if they are trying to lure & tempt operators of traditional-sized layouts with small curves. The price is offsetting but perhaps this is the opportunity that many of these smaller operators look for, if so, Lionel is capitalizing on it.
I'm impressed with the complaining and lack of enthusiasm 
. That said, I doubt I'll be buying much, but that's because of age and a robust excess of product from the last 30 years. If I were 10-20 years younger or more recently into the hobby, I'd probably be buying a few thousand dollars worth of stuff (or not). It will be interesting to see how younger hobbyists react to the catalog, lacking the cynicism, "get off my lawn" crankiness and general negative karma of some of us older folks.
Lots of things have gone up in price far above the base inflation rate, as all of us know. Depends on supply, demand and particular costs of producing whatever it is. Demand for trains is probably down to static and costs of doing business in China for many things has far exceeded the base inflation rate. It is what it is. Check out Atlas prices compared with MTH prices on similar products 4-5 years ago for another example. And even MTH, with minimal overhead compared with Lionel and Atlas, has increased prices significantly for some products.
Can’t wait to see the various custom runs from dealers!
@Richie C. posted:My pet peeve with Lionel for years now - offering an attractive locomotive that will run down to O-36 and at the same time offering a matching passenger or freight car set that will only run on a minimum O-54 track.
Very frustrating for those with smaller curved layouts who would like to buy both.
And I thought it was just me! Yes this is very frustrating for those of us with a smaller radius track layout.
@R2unit posted:And I thought it was just me! Yes this is very frustrating for those of us with a smaller radius track layout.
Here's the really sad part. They have O36 capable passenger cars in this catalog but only available in a set on pages 16 & 17, not for separate sale.
I do like the PRR S2 & may go for that and one of the CNJ FMs. A few observations I noticed - the 2133W set - the price on that is 1200 - for a conventional engine with no sounds and 3 standard postwar cars. The conventional classics sets sold for less than half that. Even if you factor in inflation and the fact they tossed in a loop of track & a CW80 - it still doesn't add up. I was very excited about the Reading LC+ F units until I saw the price. This is basically the price of a legacy engine - $900. I thought the LC+ line was supposed to be a bit more affordable. Couple that with $1100 for a four car set of aluminum cars - It's crazy. It also would have been nice to see something done from the MPC era as well, since that is a big part of Lionel's history.
Some of the prewar and postwar inspired stuff is interesting such as the 763 Hudson, but not at $2400. Also, there are a few MPC inspired items as well. My MPC #8157 Train Master is safe. Lionel has "TRAINMASTER" as one word, but I believe that the locomotive is two words. The job "trainmaster" I believe is one word.
The NYC #2344 F3 in the 2133W set on Pages 16-17 is good looking. L is doing the postwar style Santa Fe F3's again on Page 92, this time in "stainless steel plating" paint job. However, my 1950 built #2343's do the job just fine.
I like the postwar #204 inspired scale Santa Fe Alco FA's on Page 68, but not so sure at $1700 for an A-B-A. I will probably spring for it, but I shouldn't. I will contemplate about it.
Some of the Star Wars cars are somewhat appealing, but the Star Wars locomotives are awful in my opinion.
Also, the layout of the catalog is somewhat confusing as they have the LionChief stuff scattered throughout the the catalog.
@Landsteiner posted:I'm impressed with the complaining and lack of enthusiasm
I'm 37 and I'm underwhelmed with this book. I wasn't expecting anything much for Star Wars and still was let down.
I won't complain about pricing. I get it.
The only things I'm getting are some Bob Ross rolling stock besides a Hudson.
I like the conventional F3 set but not at that price. I think that one is a little steep.
Just my somewhat younger 2 cents.
I wanted those Reading F3s, but 900 dollars retail? Yikes, wish they would dump the smoke unit to bring the price down a bit. I will have to pass. Like the O scale prewar stuff, can't afford it, but I like it. Would have liked to see lion chief Madison cars with the prewar inspired decoration. 700 seems pretty steep for a Pacific, makes me think if a postwar tooling J is in the next catalog it would be 900. I was hoping for a flatcar transporting an X wing or tie fighter in the Star Wars line. I will get the Southern LC 0-8-0, keep making affordable southeastern road name locomotives please.
@Landsteiner posted:I'm impressed with the complaining and lack of enthusiasm
Lots of things have gone up in price far above the base inflation rate, as all of us know. Depends on supply, demand and particular costs of producing whatever it is. Demand for trains is probably down to static and costs of doing business in China for many things has far exceeded the base inflation rate. It is what it is. Check out Atlas prices compared with MTH prices on similar products 4-5 years ago for another example. And even MTH, with minimal overhead compared with Lionel and Atlas, has increased prices significantly for some products.
I'm 30, does that make me a younger hobbyist? Or a older-than-young-but-not-middle-aged? lol
anyway -- the prices don't add up to me.
the Santa Fe F3 AA -- $900 MSRP
4 cars -- $1100 MSRP
~$2000 for a Lionechief 2.0+ set.
Whereas a Lionchief set, comes with the engine and 3 cars for ~$400
(ignoring the track + power + remote etc)
So you're telling me the next step up from the entry level (from Lionel) goes from $400 -> $2000?
I'll continue to scavenge for older trains at York 
It is a very full catalog. I am not sure if it is the printing, but I did not see passenger cars with interiors or people. Maybe I looked too quickly.
@PRR4876 posted:I wanted those Reading F3s, but 900 dollars retail? Yikes, wish they would dump the smoke unit to bring the price down a bit. I will have to pass. Like the O scale prewar stuff, can't afford it, but I like it. Would have liked to see lion chief Madison cars with the prewar inspired decoration. 700 seems pretty steep for a Pacific, makes me think if a postwar tooling J is in the next catalog it would be 900. I was hoping for a flatcar transporting an X wing or tie fighter in the Star Wars line. I will get the Southern LC 0-8-0, keep making affordable southeastern road name locomotives please.
I really wanted the Reading units too, even though they aren't full scale. I like Reading anything to run along with my PRR stuff. For comparison, I just picked up an Atlas F7 AB Reading pair from their latest release NIB for less than the price of these
I am thinking about getting the Atlantic Ann Arbor Steam locomotive. I don't have an Atlantic steamer and I don't see Ann Arbor Railway too often. Thank goodness most of my buying days are behind me!!
This may sound stupid but I would have offered a t-shirt/sweatshirt (Lionel 125 logo), a coffee mug (Lionel 125 logo), and/or a beer stein (Lionel 125 logo) - keep the prices down though.
Go Lions 
@Christopher2035 posted:I do like the PRR S2 & may go for that and one of the CNJ FMs. A few observations I noticed - the 2133W set - the price on that is 1200 - for a conventional engine with no sounds and 3 standard postwar cars. The conventional classics sets sold for less than half that. Even if you factor in inflation and the fact they tossed in a loop of track & a CW80 - it still doesn't add up. I was very excited about the Reading LC+ F units until I saw the price. This is basically the price of a legacy engine - $900. I thought the LC+ line was supposed to be a bit more affordable. Couple that with $1100 for a four car set of aluminum cars - It's crazy. It also would have been nice to see something done from the MPC era as well, since that is a big part of Lionel's history.
I noticed that the 2133W set had no sound. Didn't the "W" in 2133W stand for whistle? They should offer this with a better quality caboose as well.
I have defended pricing for a while. I'm sorry, but this all feels greedy.
Heislers were first introduced in 2003 at 1200. In 2015, they came back out with Legacy for 1300. Somehow, whistle smoke added another $400 to $1700.
Heavyweight passenger cars, which have been around for a long time, are now $300 a car! In 2005 a 4 pack was 449. In 2015 it was 549. Now a 2 pack is 600.
Lionel prices all took off around 2017, well before inflation went wild.
Also, can Lionel make a PS1 boxcar without sound?
Younger member here..... nothing of interest in this catalog for what I model.... but prices would've killed it either way. I do think they are missing the point of LC2.0 .... it should be a noticeably more affordable line.
When Lionel made the original Hudson in 1937, the real Hudson was relatively new and travel by rail was still the way that many people went places. Today, there aren't as many glamorous new developments in railroading for a manufacturer to model and a smaller proportion of people travel by rail or pay attention to trains. So, 98 years after the Hudson began to run on the New York Central and 88 years after the first Hudson model, that's what we see in the catalog. The new Hudsons are beautiful and I would like to have one, but I already have a Hudson and the new ones are rather expensive... I've been in the hobby for a long time so it's not like I don't already have equipment. Maybe the items in the catalog are directed at younger buyers. It seems to me that the hobby as we practice it today is related to railroad history as much as it is to present day railroading. Having said that, there certainly are some classic steamers and diesels that I would buy, but they don't appear in this catalog.
MELGAR
@Brian DeFazio posted:Younger member here..... nothing of interest in this catalog for what I model.... but prices would've killed it either way. I do think they are missing the point of LC2.0 .... it should be a noticeably more affordable line.
Heck, they barely appeared in this catalog... Maybe V2 will have something for us.
Vision Line Autoracks - Are they self-propelled for $350?
I agree, the catalog felt too full on licensed products and too many price hikes. It was refreshing to see some pre/post war inspired stuff and an attempt to make generational connections. However, between the off order of the contents and the over saturation of licensed products, I feel mixed. Not to mention the prices! If the fat was trimmed, the contents reorganized, and the price fit the worth of the product then it probably would r a good catalog. $1,100 for a conventional set, outrageous! $500+ for a PW inspired Lionchief starter set, despicable! It almost feels like the big L is forcing new comers, who have no prior knowledge, to make a black and white decision on whether to buy a set or never get into the hobby.
I digress, I suppose I am both excited and exhausted about this catalog.
I'll preface this with I think they look like overpriced junk - but it is somewhat innovative to have a battery O line. It doesn't look like they even have metal wheels, so automated switches won't work if running on a real layout. It would kind of be interesting to me if they ever produced a rechargeable battery version of one of the LC+ or Legacy products. They could even produce a nice two rail track (metal rails) for them to run on.
The back end of the catalog doesn't even include prices for the track, transformers, LCS items, or inventory still available.... I know - if you have to ask, you probably cant afford it.
I've got vision line taste on a battery O budget.
I've been asking for some PW-inspired/conventional items for years now and at first glance was excited, but after another viewing I'm less enthused.
The conventional NY Central Set is a great idea, but not at that price. And here's the thing. Price aside, why oh why do you include track and a CW?? By definition, the market for those the most interested in classic conventional sets are the folks who don't need track and a middling transformer. Just give us the trains!
Same for the Prairie passenger set. Looks nice, but most of us already have those green and yellow 2400s, either original PW versions or remakes that came out a number of years back.
I'll give it another run-through when I get the hard copy, but not sure there's anything for me.
I’m sure they have done their marketing research, but I’ve got to wonder who is going to buy all this personalized and licensed stuff……
One of the VL Hudsons for me and nothing else……either 5344 or 5403……
Peter
@johnstrains posted:I've been asking for some PW-inspired/conventional items for years now and at first glance was excited, but after another viewing I'm less enthused.
The conventional NY Central Set is a great idea, but not at that price. And here's the thing. Price aside, why oh why do you include track and a CW?? By definition, the market for those the most interested in classic conventional sets are the folks who don't need track and a middling transformer. Just give us the trains!
Same for the Prairie passenger set. Looks nice, but most of us already have those green and yellow 2400s, either original PW versions or remakes that came out a number of years back.
I'll give it another run-through when I get the hard copy, but not sure there's anything for me.
This mismash of a catalog makes looking for exactly what you want a chore. I saw the conventional set somewhere but I can't find it. At any rate I think the price was close to $1000. I think that if you're going to include some track and a transformer then what you're saying is that this is a starter set. But at that price it's a non-starter and very few are going to start getting into O gauge at that price. It would be better to just sell a conventional locomotive with cars.
@Dave 69 GTEL posted:This mismash of a catalog makes looking for exactly what you want a chore. I saw the conventional set somewhere but I can't find it. At any rate I think the price was close to $1000. I think that if you're going to include some track and a transformer then what you're saying is that this is a starter set. But at that price it's a non-starter and very few are going to start getting into O gauge at that price. It would be better to just sell a conventional locomotive with cars.
It's actually $1200.
Yeah, you could call it a "starter set," but I guess my point is that the nostalgia factor for PW-inspired and conventional runners implies a demographic that skews older and doesn't need/want a starter set. Can't fathom why they didn't just offer the trains and leave out track and s transformer. Lord knows the horror stories with the CWs. Not sure if they've been rectified (pun intended), but they've had a checkered past.
@johnstrains posted:It's actually $1200.
Yeah, you could call it a "starter set," but I guess my point is that the nostalgia factor for PW-inspired and conventional runners implies a demographic that skews older and doesn't need/want a starter set. Can't fathom why they didn't just offer the trains and leave out track and s transformer. Lord knows the horror stories with the CWs. Not sure if they've been rectified (pun intended), but they've had a checkered past.
The newer generation of CW-80s are much better.
I'm guessing the goal with this set was to re-create the nostalgia of receiving your first Lionel postwar set with same features (minus the classic e-unit buzzing). Maybe it will have special postwar like packaging to recreate that 1950's Christmas day feeling? (Not that that justifies the price)
For the price tag, you literally don't get any bell or whistle compared to a cheap LC set for a fraction of the price with all the same starter items and full sounds with smoke (on steam engines).
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