Looking to Rebuild the K3470-1295CC K Line Tank Engine Electronics that went poof!

The cruise M won't be a problem. Its about the same size as the K-Line Cruise board. Can't help with the flywheel yet as mine is still working.

Pete

@cjack posted:

Other than finding the room for the ERR Cruise M, the engine needs to have a chuff as well. The motor flywheel has a conical shape, so not sure how the Super Chuffer strip will attach effectively. Anyone rebuilt one of these yet? Maybe pictures too if available.

I don't think Super Chuffer needs a tach strip. At least not in the few conversions I have done. It typically takes the chuff trigger signal from the existing cherry switch (pin 17 on the R2LC), which should already be in the engine. If that wont work then maybe magnets and a reed switch is the answer. I'll be interested in how you make out though, as my Tank Engine has just developed a big lurching issue in both forward and reverse. My guess is the K-Line cruise board is shot. Were these things all designed to cr@p out at the same time?

Rod

Rod, the tank engine gets its chuff signal from the cruise board as did a few more K-Line engines. True, most had switch but not this engine, hence the problem.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Rod, the tank engine gets its chuff signal from the cruise board as did a few more K-Line engines. True, most had switch but not this engine, hence the problem.

Pete

OK sounds like John's Chuff Generator might be the way to go, if it will all fit in. Or failing that the magnets and reed switch. They are a tight engine is all I know, but John may know for sure.

Rod

Has anyone rebuilt one of these yet? I kind of waited, first to let the stink mitigate, and second to advantage someone's experience with the same issue. There should be more of them needing the rebuild by now...

Mine is in the queue to rebuild, but right now I'm trying to get other projects done like my new freight yard, etc.

For tight fits around the flywheel, I came up with this little board to extend the sensor from the Chuff-Generator.  You can cut it anywhere past the red line and minimize the space needed for the sensor.  The four wires go directly to the Chuff-Generator, I typically just put that in heatshrink and find a spot for it.  I've used this board two times, next time I guess I should take actual pictures of the board.

I haven't done this repair yet. Occasionally I think about throwing the mess away, but something keeps it under the layout. Has anyone done theirs yet? I took pictures when it was still together and smoked, so I have some rewiring/placement info. I'm wondering still about the conical flywheel. I think the striped strip will maybe glue onto it, but what do I do with the existing pickup on the motor...in the way of the pickup for the super chuffer?

I have a Mikado K Line Cruise Upgrade Kit and thought about using that flywheel or motor.

This is as far as I have gotten.

See the conical flywheel?

Chuck, what makes you think the Mikado worm gear would match the tank engine wormgear?

Since swapping gears is the hard part I would suggest getting a “Fix It” flywheel from Lionel and using that on your motor. It has a set screw so easy to install without damaging the motor. Flywheels are easier to remove but likely the encoder wheel will get trashed.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Since swapping gears is the hard part I would suggest getting a “Fix It” flywheel from Lionel and using that on your motor. It has a set screw so easy to install without damaging the motor. Flywheels are easier to remove but likely the encoder wheel will get trashed.

Pete

Pete, what's the point of the fix-it flywheel, he's not going with Odyssey I.  Why not just use a standard flywheel.  You can buy a host of Legacy flywheels of all shapes and sizes with setscrews to secure them.

@cjack posted:

Hmm...  OK, I'm outta' here.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Pete, what's the point of the fix-it flywheel, he's not going with Odyssey I.  Why not just use a standard flywheel.  You can buy a host of Legacy flywheels of all shapes and sizes with setscrews to secure them.

I thought he was hoping to use your chuff generator and needed a cylindrical  flywheel. Why would anyone go to Odyssey?????? A fixit is cheaper and thinner than an Legacy Flywheel and the encoder wheel is just extra garbage. No one mentioned magnets.

Pete

As you pointed out John, the worm gears are different. The kit one is narrower and a tad longer. I take it the strobe wheel is for the original cruise feedback for the original driver card. I wonder what that signal looks like. Little chance of using it I assume. It must come out of the blue wire to go to the original cruise driver card.

The original driver card says VER 3.0, the card in the kit says VER 4.0. I was also thinking of putting the kit card in the engine, but that seems like loading a bomb in the car.

So.......has anyone fixed one of these?

@Norton posted:

I thought he was hoping to use your chuff generator and needed a cylindrical  flywheel. Why would anyone go to Odyssey?????? A fixit is cheaper and thinner than an Legacy Flywheel and the encoder wheel is just extra garbage. No one mentioned magnets.

Pete, the Fixit flywheel isn't any cheaper than the many Legacy flywheels without the encoder wheel, and many of those are more compact than the Fixit flywheel.   I was thinking the diameter may be a limiting factor, I have Legacy flywheels that are a lot smaller than the fixit flywheel.

I think we're on the same page, just different chapters.

Chuck, I would go with the chuff-generator and super-chuffer.  Not all the K-Line cruise modules will generate the chuff, so I have no idea if the one you have will.

Need to start first by diagnosing what happened, …..check all your existing wiring, down to the rollers and ground. Next, test the motor with a DC power source and verify the motor isn’t smoked. Knowing all that is good, will lesson the chances of a repeat. These engines are not much fun to work on,…..very little room to maneuver around in…….

Pat

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Chuck, I would go with the chuff-generator and super-chuffer.  Not all the K-Line cruise modules will generate the chuff, so I have no idea if the one you have will.

Pretty sure none of the K-Line Cruise upgrade kits include a chuff out. They only offered two. One for the Hudson and Mikado and the other for an articulated (which one???).
As for flywheels I suggested one with a set screw assuming Chuck doesn’t have the means to modify the existing one. Faced with the same situation I would just make my own to fit.

Pete

Thanks John, I have those kits from you. And thanks Pat, good advice.

Like Pete, mine still runs pretty good, so I’m not fixing it,…..but it does look like a flywheel without that odd conical shape would fit. Beings you’re ditching the stock Kline crummy Kruise ( I made that up )  you can also unsolder that cruise board on the motor if the motor is ok, …..that will buy you some precious real estate …..….then you can attach John’s chuff generator to the motor can, and overhang to the flywheel,…..you don’t need that cruise sensor board under the flywheel anymore……along with its associated sensor wiring, ….you just need to be mindful of the actual motor leads, that go back to the M driver,….

Pat

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Chuck, I would go with the chuff-generator and super-chuffer.  Not all the K-Line cruise modules will generate the chuff, so I have no idea if the one you have will.

Yes that is the way I want to go. I just got back to this engine and went looking for a K Line engine with the same gear and a thicker flywheel. This one looked good so I bought it from Trainz and it fits!

The new motor is K Line # K3180-X001. I had to swap the mount because the old mount, although  essentially the same, did not have the cutout sides to fit. Other than that, is a perfect match.

This is the old motor...

There was not much room for the Chuff strip on the old motor.

Now I have to figure out how to wire the Super Chuffer II into the engine with the Cruise M...

@cjack posted:

Now I have to figure out how to wire the Super Chuffer II into the engine with the Cruise M...

The Super-Chuffer doesn't have anything to do with the CC-M, so the CC-M won't change anything.  If you can fit the Super-Chuffer and Chuff-Generator in, you're home free.

Thanks. I think it might fit it under the Cruise M.

@cjack posted:

Thanks. I think it might fit it under the Cruise M.

Remember that I have these extension boards for the Chuff-Generator if you can't fit the whole C-G board on the motor.

You can cut these to any length that fits.  They're wired directly to the Chuff-Generator sensor pins to replace the sensor.

Thanks, I'll remember that. It's a pretty tight engine inside. Should be interesting. The generator fits on the motor under the R2LC...I think..

I've used that board on several K-Line steamers that have the reverse mounted motor.  There wasn't room for the whole C-G with clearance, that's why I originally added that board to my stable.

I'm into it now. I need to create the 4 pin connector that plugs into the Cruise M board. The instructions for the Cruise M state this  R2LC and that pins 2 and 4 on the Cruise M board are motor direction signals. However the info is somewhat lacking which direction goes on which pin. I have info on all the pins on the R2LC, pin 18 is forward and pin 16 is reverse.

Additionally, the chuffer signal goes to pin 17 on the R2LC which also goes to the serial data pin on the existing sound board?

Does anyone have info on which pin on the Cruise M is forward and which is reverse? Pins #2 and #4? I have to solder these onto the four pin connector that plugs into the Cruise M and then I can screw the R2LC connector it back on the frame by the motor for the Nth and final time. I hope.

Then I can get into finding a place for the Super Chuffer and the pickup, etc. Fun actually...

Chuck, are you sure this connector is not on the R2LC motherboard already? I know the other K-Line engines that came with K-Line Cruise have it but then that tank engine may be different. Poke around.

This is the K-Line Berk motherboard.

Pete

Hi Pete,

My other K Line engines were plug compatible, but this tank engine has this tiny plug with smooth sides on it that won't fit into the J1 connector on the Cruise M.

Of the two yellow wires, one went to the R2LC pin 17 and one went to the smoke motor thru a diode with its anode connected to one terminal of the smoke motor. The blue wire went to R2LC pin 24 and also to the K Line original sound board 4 pin connector. The black wire was screwed to frame ground. Pin 18 and 19 on R2LC were not connected. I assume those two pins are supposed to be connected to the Cruise M thru the supplied 4 pin connector J1. And they are the ones I need to know which one goes to which pin on the 4 pin connector I need to make up.

The wires on this in-compatible connector came from this skimpy motherboard...

Curious why the K Line Tank Engine did not use pins 16 and 18 on the R2LC...? You can see there are no traces on the single sided board on those pins...

And that Motherboard has two connectors on it, a 5 pin connector and a 6 pin connector (which includes R2LC pin 17 and pin 24 which both went to the 4 pin K Line incompatible connector, as well as a black wire to pin 23 and a gray wire that went to the program/run switch). But no motor direction sense wires to the R2LC on it's pins 16 and 18.

I guess I could just guess which J1 pins I could connect to R2LC 16 and 18 and reverse the wires on the motor later if necessary. That would be an easy fix. Now that I think about it, since the Cruise M folks don't know how the motor is wired, they don't know how to tell you which sense wires to connect to which pins on J1.

I guess I answered my own question...!

By the way, my 2 K Line NYC Hudson Engines had the compatible connectors on them. I put Cruise M drivers on them. They run great now. They are pretty beefy engines. One is (I think), factory weathered with cab curtains, etc.

Chuck you could just use an ohmmeter on the Hudson motherboard to tell with J1 pin goes to which pin on the R2LC. All TMCC engines should be the same.

Appreciate the preview on the issues that have to be dealt with when the time comes. Its not if the Cruise board fails but when. Mine is still working.

Pete

The K-Line cruise did NOT use the PWM signals, it did all it's dirty work using the serial data.  That was one of the oddities of the K-Like Cruise.  Also, the K-Line cruise was used on this engine to generate the chuff and drive the smoke fan motor, so you need to provide a chuff switch.

@cjack posted:

Of the two yellow wires, one went to the R2LC pin 17 and one went to the smoke motor thru a diode with its anode connected to one terminal of the smoke motor. The blue wire went to R2LC pin 24 and also to the K Line original sound board 4 pin connector. The black wire was screwed to frame ground. Pin 18 and 19 on R2LC were not connected. I assume those two pins are supposed to be connected to the Cruise M thru the supplied 4 pin connector J1. And they are the ones I need to know which one goes to which pin on the 4 pin connector I need to make up.

Pins 1 & 5 are 5V from the R2LC, pin-2 is PWM forward and pin-4 is PWM reverse.

Ah...thank you guys. And I have the Super Chuffer and Generator in hand. I've been waiting for someone with a burnt up one to rebuild theirs with the Cruise M and Chuffer and post issues and pictures. But I have some time from ham radio kits and tackled this dog. At least it quit stinking by now.