Make a new Section for Store Ads?

I want to clarify that I'm not trying to curtail Vendor Posts - I just think they should have a "Forum" specific to Vendors to post and not use other Forums that are intended for other purposes.  Let those Forums be what they were created for (Administrators already move posts that are in the wrong Forum, so if that is done because that is not the intent, Vendors should be held to the same requirement)...

That would pretty much defeat the purpose of advertising on the forum. Are you ready to help foot the bill when they leave?

The "vendors" keep the lights on around here.  They support the forum and in return they can post their ads.  I'm fine with where they are because of that.  You can easily bypass their ads if you want but if they left I suspect it will be lights out.

John,

To me, that is not the way to look at it.  Most members come to the forum to see what others are doing, get ideas, get issues fixed, etc.  To be honest, how many members ignore the vendor posts?  There is no way to tell, but I am one who never look at them, and I bet there are many more too.  We have the Buy/Sell Forum for people who want to see what people are selling.  Why should we let the Vendors do that in the regular forums, which were not intended for this when they were created, forcing people to skip their emails, just to get to what they want to see?  If people are interested in sales, there should be one place for them to go instead of seeing the vendor posts on many different forums.

The purpose of the Forum is give a place for members and vendors.  But Vendors should have a place to post their sales, etc. rather than in others.

When I go to 3-Rail Scale Model Trains, I don't want to see all but 3 posts all about Vendor sales/special runs.  If I go to this Forum, I want to see posts about 3-Rail Scale.  Looking at the Forums now,  currently in the 3-rail Traditional Forum, 8 out of the 25 are vendors (32%).  In the 3-Rail Scale Forum, 88% (22 of the 25) are Vendor Adds not to mention 80% on Page 2.  How is this good business for members to have to browse posts when Vendor adds are clogging the Forum?  Just to put in perspective, in the 3-Rale Scale, 2 pages = 50 posts.  Only 8 of those are member posts/topics.  The other 42 are vendor posts. 

I'm in no way trying to bash Vendors or impact revenue to OGR, but continuing like this with no rules that allows this to happen really makes the forum not what it was intended for.

Put the vendor announcements in a new Forum just like Buy/Sell are so people can go there to see what's new, but leave the others what they were intended for.  If members want to see the posts, they will.  But don't force everyone to see the header when they don't want/need to.

Allan,

I understand your point but look at it another way: the percentage of member vs. vendor posts in 3-Rail Scale is a result of the paucity of member posts not the proliferation of vendor posts.  There have been three member posts in the past two weeks.  That's nothing.  If there were more active 3-Rail Scale threads, this wouldn't even be an issue because the vendor posts would move down.

Mike

@MikeH nailed it. Vendor posts do NOT prevent other posts. As others have so correctly stated, Vendors keep the lights on. I don't understand this re-occuring need to reinvent the wheel. It is so easy to scroll past what doesn't interest you.

Member content is dependent on a member wanting to share something. If a tread is "threadbare", don't blame the format...

John

Complaints about the forum structure might be a little more credible if the complainers had a blue banner next to their name.

Having a blue banner does not make me any less valuable as a member of this Forum...

And while I would like this to be considered by the Admins, will anything come of it, I don't know...

Not happening is my guess. Advertisers pay to support the forum and want the maximal number of eyes on their ads.  Not an unreasonable expectation.  A reader's desire not to see ads doesn't and shouldn't count for much, whether it's in the magazine or the Forum.  The advertisers make both the magazine and the Forum possible from a finances standpoint.  No advertisers = no magazine and no Forum.

Don't some of the vendors complain that not ALL of them appear at the top of the page?  I would think they would.

John

John H & Marty E said it all,….there’s no two ways to shake about it, …..the forum sponsors keep the lights on, …..period,….want them quarantined?….boom boom, out goes the lights!….which is fine Allan, we’ll just need your open checkbook to keep the place going, …….what a guy!!….so until that happens, weed through the ads, and get where you’re going!…

Pat

@Craftech posted:

Don't some of the vendors complain that not ALL of them appear at the top of the page?  I would think they would.

John

The ads at the top rotate, they're not static.  I suspect they're represented at some point.

I would like to see what the Admins think.  I understand the funds that we get, but we also need to balance vs. the expectations of what the Forum is.

I've studied this type of thing before and the results are that the more emails we get from any vendor means the less they are looked at (too many in too short a period of time)...

@C&O Allan posted:

I would like to see what the Admins think.  I understand the funds that we get, but we also need to balance vs. the expectations of what the Forum is.

I've studied this type of thing before and the results are that the more emails we get from any vendor means the less they are looked at (too many in too short a period of time)...

Read this thread.

https://ogrforum.com/topic/78579203765369397

@C&O Allan posted:

I would like to see what the Admins think.  I understand the funds that we get, but we also need to balance vs. the expectations of what the Forum is.

I've studied this type of thing before and the results are that the more emails we get from any vendor means the less they are looked at (too many in too short a period of time)...

Not to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think I know what'll they say.

This has come up before.

Edit: And there you go, Marty was on it.

Another topic to review.

https://ogrforum.com/...ver-the-forum?page=1

Being a member of the forum does not entitle you to very much except getting all the benefits for free, and that seems very important to some. A blue banner shows appreciation for all that. Asking for more does not.

@C&O Allan posted:

I would like to see what the Admins think.  I understand the funds that we get, but we also need to balance vs. the expectations of what the Forum is.

I've studied this type of thing before and the results are that the more emails we get from any vendor means the less they are looked at (too many in too short a period of time)...

Allan,

The admins have already spoken, with their actions, which have been clear and consistent over many years.

You're fighting an uphill battle here and unfortunately your facts don't appear to be persuasive enough to push through a change, or even consideration of one -- at least not without some help.

Where's your cavalry?

In other words is there another way to approach this that might be more amenable to the forum, both users and admins?

Mike

Thanks for the links.  I really do understand both sides to this process.  I know Vendors are doing everything to help with their businesses, and I appreciate that (I really do - this is not lip service as I've purchased items due to those posts).  I also know that things have changed in the past 3 years which is when the latest topic was discussed.

I would throw this topic out the Vendors as well - if they are posting almost every day, that means just a few of their posts will remain on Page 1 depending on how many posts are done by member.  That means that some will be pushed to Page 2 before they are seen, including those that don't post as often, meaning their topics won't be seen by as many members.

So would it be better to have a single Forum for Vendor information/Specials that everyone knows that every post is from a Vendor and that those posts will stay on Page 1 longer (that really does make a difference) or have it as is where there is an understanding that not all their posts will be read (as they are on older tabs) or not read at all?

This is all about exposure and there are plusses/minuses.  On one hand, they could be on Forum Topics that are the most active, but not all their posts may be looked at as they are not on the first page (i.e. no change).  On the other hand, they would have their own location for their posts that anyone who goes to that Forum knows exactly what to expect and they know if they go to Page 2 or farther back, they can see older posts by the Vendor knowing that the member wouldn't have to wade through member posts to find the Vendor ones.

I can't say which way they feel is better. I know they are the backbone of this Forum and I'm just throwing out the question to see if there is a better way to do what the intent is (for everyone).  I don't know if they look at this specific Forum section, but it would be interesting to get their input.

Mike,

I'm sure it is an uphill battle, and I don't know how many read from this Forum (I honestly didn't until today).  But I have gotten some PMs and Likes, so there are some who do have input to this in a different way that it is today.

I am going to first close this topic and then may delete it.  I sent a private email to Mr. Adelman.  I still don't understand why folks have a problem with advertiser posts since members have the option of not reading them if they don't want.  Actually,  our policy of allowing advertisers to promote where they want is because they pay a lot of money to be here.  Frankly, hundreds of times more than those of you (and we thank you!) that are supporting members and/or subscribers.  We ask that if you don't like a policy of ours to contact us / me, this is stated in our TOS.  To debate a topic like this is just not going to get anyone Brownie points.  Suggestions are fine but to assert the way that advertisers post here doesn't work and in fact works against their success is simply based on opinion.  Tracking software is provided to us that clearly shows the tens of thousands of members that click on the banners and advertisers links/posts.  I appreciate those of you that posted above that show an understanding of marketing and why an advertiser would not want to be limited.  Heck, it would be like all of the media telling advertisers that they can't run ads during any programming and to just hope that folks go to the one channel out of thousands to find their ad!  If you don't want to see ads then don't read them and better yet, how about supporting OGR and become a subscriber and/or supporting member!  That would help defer us having to go out and find more advertisers!