MPC Lionel Geep?? Replacing AC motor for something that works??

If you get a Williams GP-9, try just swapping the shells.  I've done that on several engines.

Timko's Toy Train Depot offers a service where they can convert your AC motors to DC can motors.  http://timkorepairdepot.com/Services.html.  Not sure what they'll quote you, but I'm guessing with shipping, etc. factored in the Williams Geeps might be more economical.

The first and simplest thing to try is adding some lead or other weight to the engines. That can make quite a difference. Take off the shell and attach the weights to the frame. The motors will still draw the same power, of course, but you'll find the pulling power enhanced.

 

I run in a command control environment, and have picked up some Geeps (newer than yours - from the late 90's) on the Bay, and swapped shells. These have better pulling power than the MPC Geeps. The last group of these 1990's Geeps were equipped with diecast trucks, diecast fuel tanks, and diecast pilots, and have a lot of heft and good pulling power.

 

As another alternative, you may also be able to do some cutting and pasting and fit your MPC Geep shells on a Williams Geep chassis. More recently, Lionel has also made 3 or 4 traditional Geeps (Chinese-made), that are not equipped with Command, which have dual vertical can motors, diecast fuel tanks, etc., and these pull as well as Williams or any of the others. I have swapped shells on several of these as well.

These engines are starting to get old. I have seen this problem with several. You know, it is amazing what some new traction tires and a cleaning and relube can do.

 

Al

Not to throw you money around, but the best thing you can do with that old technology
is give it an honorable retirement on a shelf, then buy a new can-motored Weaver, MTH, Lionel, Williams or Atlas product. The basic designs (sometimes the parts) are the same, with
mostly electronics variations.

Go cheap - used Williams.
Sometimes as cheap - the others, and they have more features.
MTH and Weaver have the most consistent quality (experience talking), but, as they say, it's all good. eBay is full of bargains like this; just shop around and be patient.

- If your current MPC's are slipping, it's a weight problem.
- If they are weak/bogging down, it's a power problem; weight will make it worse. They
  need maintenance, at least.

If you can swing it, buy modern.

At the time they were made they were about the only thing around. Let's face it, you have only one motor, a sheet metal frame, and other than the "E" unit and the body there isn't much there for weight. The unit relies on traction tires for any pulling power it has. If they'er not in good shape the unit will have little or no traction. The motor is a decent motor but the best motor in the world will not pull if it dosen't have any traction. Let's say you replace the motor with a modern unit; you still only have one motor conpaired to the two motored units of today. And forget about adding a second motor; you would have to do major modification to the frame as it is not made for it. As I said, clean it, lubricate it, and replace the traction tires. On a good day and clean track you could expect it to pull about 7 to 10 cars. Oh, and put the motor to the rear of the engine, it pulls better.

 

You could try to add some weight but I don't know what luck you would have. Leave it to the yard and short trains and go out and by yourself a dual motored modern engine.

 

Al

 

I agree with Al, as for the motors I'll take the AC pullmor motor over a DC can motor any day.  As others mentioned, adding some weight is not a bad idea.

That said, these engines were made to pull rolling stock of the same era, with light weight plastic frames and fast angle metal wheels.

 

Greenberg's Guide To Enjoying Fundimensions Lionel, goes into detail about settng expectations.

 

Ken 

<<<

Have a couple of AC motor Lionel MPC era Geeps.

Is there anything that I could replace the AC motors in them that do not pull very well at all>>>

 

Any time I read something like the above the first thing that comes to my mind is--is the motor losing power?  i.e. stopped turning, or turning too slow; or are the wheels spinnng?

 

There's a big differnce as to the possible solutions.

As mentioned, try turning the loco around and run it backwards as well as adding some weight. Now for the good stuff! I have kitbashed a Geep and powered it with a williams motor & truck. It's a pretty simple bolt in with very little mods to make it work. The only real problems is that the hole on a Lionel is a little bigger than Williams so your truck will have a little more slop in it but that doesn't effect anything. The only other problem is that if you buy a Williams dummy upgrade for it you will get 2 motors & trucks w/e-unit. Unless WBB has changed things when I did this WBB told me that I had to buy the whole truck instead of the bolsters and other parts I needed to complete it, so now I have a extra set of motor trucks as well as another truck & motor if I want to do another. Would judt have to get a e-unit. Good luck with whatever road you take.

John, respectfully, I went to the Timko website and didn't find anywhere where it mentions replacing a Lionel AC motor with a DC motor.  Could you provide a link where it mentions this?  I've used Timko in the past to replace two motors in an older Williams GG1 and was very happy with them.  I've also used a Williams GP and been very happy with its performance.

Steve

Add weight.  The adhesive wheel weights from Harbor Freight are great for putting weight where you want it - frame, inside shell, in belly tank.  Just try to concentrate the weight over the drive wheels.





Also, if the traction tires are glazed or worn, replace them.

Just Email Them. For Steamers, the cost is 45.00 or something close to that. I would keep the AC Motor though. Just perform maintenance on it, and it will run forever.

Exactly!

       



RideTheRails,

Trust me, they do.  They've offered that as a service for many years.

Don't know if I necessarily agree with the previous comments about retaining the AC motor.  The MPC-era motors on many of those Geeps have rather sub-standard build quality to them as opposed to the postwar era (less windings on the armatures is one that comes to mind).  That, plus they'll still be amperage hogs and never run as smoothly or quietly when compared to DC can motors, even when in prime condition.  As a side benefit Timko can retrofit those PW and MPC Geeps so that they're dual motored, like what Williams does with theirs, since the can motors can fit in the narrow hood end unlike the AC motors.

Tks for response all some interesting ideas!

I have a pair powered and 2 dummies as well run them as a 4 unit train. It is not a problem with them slipping at all.

The problem is they are drawing a huge amount of amps and can crank the transformer up to full volts and they just roll along.

I just thought if I could match up a good DC can motor and gear set to the existing trucks then I might have some pulling power.

 

I also have a Williams engine that I paid $99 for at the Trainworld sale if I could just swap the trucks in (different body shell) or swap the body shell.

 

The Willams pulls long trains no problem with little volts!

 

 

You need to clean the commutator, replace brushes and springs (or adjust springs).  While these will draw more current then DC Can motors, full throttle to just move with out slipping is still a problem.    They should move at a good clip at 14Volts.  G