MTH furure remote running legacy engines

Lionel some time ago stated they would make available Legacy's software to anyone who wished to use it.  It's a indication to me that they are confident in their market position, and that this open approach will just increase the number of people purchasing their Legacy locomotives through having it available to those who primarily have used DCS.

I can guarantee that MTH is not coming out with a new remote at all, this year.

What you may have heard is that the Premium, or Pro, version of the MTH DCS App, due out later this year, will have TMCC engine control and, perhaps, Legacy control, as well.

thanks for the info

tangoman posted:

I just read where MTH is coming out in the fall with a dcs remote that will run lionel legacy engines. anyone know if this means lionel opened their legacy codes to MTH?

Lionel has opened up the Legacy stuff to anyone that wants to develop add-on products, you can sign up as a developer for free and obtain all the necessary information.  You have to have, at a minimum, the LCS serial interface to use the Legacy serial protocol.

does mth do the same with their codes?

Hmmm. Mike Wolf said last Saturday while visiting Mr Muffins Trains that the new App will have full Legacy control. Was that jumping the gun or is it already known that it will have full Legacy control?

From Steve (Mr Muffin)

"Mike shared with some of our guests his thoughts on the direction of DCS and the WiFi App. He shared that the release we will see this fall will include many functions not available in the current remote - for example full Lionel Legacy functionality through DCS."

Was that jumping the gun or is it already known that it will have full Legacy control?

That was MTH's chief "sales guy" talking.  

Seriously, that's been said a few times before, however, there's been nothing "official". I know it's what MTH desires, however, since there hasn't been a  published spec for the Premium version, there's nothing factual available to say if Legacy control of engines will be included.

tangoman posted:

does mth do the same with their codes?

Nope.

John,

Sure Barry, but that's as a subcontractor to MTH, and they can't use it in their own products.  That's a huge step from releasing the protocols for a 3rd party to develop independent products.  When I worked as an aerospace consultant, I had access to loads of proprietary information, but I had to sign an NDA and couldn't use anything I learned in my own business pursuits.  That's pretty much the model that MTH is following, they are keeping the protocol pretty tight to their chest.

John,

that's as a subcontractor to MTH, and they can't use it in their own products.

I never said otherwise.

That's a huge step from releasing the protocols for a 3rd party to develop independent products. 

Rather, I'd call it a start towards allowing others to develop products that share space in the DCS world.

When I worked as an aerospace consultant, I had access to loads of proprietary information, but I had to sign an NDA and couldn't use anything I learned in my own business pursuits.

I'm quite familiar with NDAs. On too many occasions to count, I've both authored them and signed them, some as a consultant and others as the owner of the proprietary information. They can grant powers large and small, and are often a first step towards more binding business relationships.

That's pretty much the model that MTH is following, they are keeping the protocol pretty tight to their chest.

At  the present time, that's true. However, who knows what the future holds?  

it sounds kind of one-sided to me. it seems lionel is interested in expanding their command /sound benefits for all the 0 gauge community regardless of whose products are being used. shame everybody does not share that  philosophy.

definitely different marketing approaches

Or in this case not quite nine horses.

I'm surprised that MTH is going to build more hand-held remotes!  Mike was really promoting the phone app. and attachment antenna to the TIU last weekend.  Eventually, there won't be hand-helds.  It will be your phone.

John C. posted:

I'm surprised that MTH is going to build more hand-held remotes!  Mike was really promoting the phone app. and attachment antenna to the TIU last weekend.  Eventually, there won't be hand-helds.  It will be your phone.

 

Unless he's recently changed his mind for some reason, Mike has stated publicly before (TCA Museum, maybe elsewhere) that he plans on never making a new DCS remote control, he wants to rely on the phone apps. 

Financially, I can't blame him with all he invested to bring out DCS in the first place, I guess. (though it was 15 years ago now)

I'm not a fan, since I like being able to feel for buttons rather than having to look down at the surface of a phone/tablet to see what I'm about to do, but it is what it is.  I guess to some extent the many soft-keys for special functions started us down that path since it's also hard to do that without looking at the screen, but at least the common things could be done without looking to closely at the remote (if at all).

-Dave

He's liable to lose some of the old-school folks that like the actual remote and don't want to use a smart phone, or indeed don't have one.  Another issue is the complexity and cost.  If you go to a friends house that doesn't have the WiFi module, you're out of luck.  For someone with multiple TIU's, not only do they need multiple smart phones for more people to run, they also need multiple WiFi units.  I'm not seeing this as a particularly good idea.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

He's liable to lose some of the old-school folks that like the actual remote and don't want to use a smart phone, or indeed don't have one.  Another issue is the complexity and cost.  If you go to a friends house that doesn't have the WiFi module, you're out of luck.  For someone with multiple TIU's, not only do they need multiple smart phones for more people to run, they also need multiple WiFi units.  I'm not seeing this as a particularly good idea.

John,

Up to this point my friends would always say you needed nine or more things from Lionel to do what a TIU and AIU do. Unfortunately with MTH requiring 1 WiFi unit per TIU a layout with multiple TIU's now requires 2, 3, 4 or 5 WiFi units. It was nice to operate via the WiFi app with the fancy graphics in bright colors and the engine command/response seems to be quicker than a handheld on the layouts we've played on. We will most likely be staying with handheld remotes. Nearly all of the guests prefer the ability to select the normal features just by touch. Said it isn't intuitive when they have to constantly look at the screen to see what they are doing. (Like a phone adding or deleting things in your pocket when the screen is supposedly dark and off:-) The one remote feature they all would have preferred is a Select button in that one blank space rather than using the thumbwheel to scroll AND select.

I don't want my phone to control my trains, it's for making phone calls!

If MTH gets rid of the remote before I get a DCS system, then I'll never buy into the system.

Slow down Turbo, nobody said MTH is getting rid of the remote. The speculation is that MTH will not design a new remote. However thsi is all still speculation and none of it is based on any sort of actual facts.

There are many graybeards like me who will not use a cell phone beyond "GO Phone" technology. So the DCS Handheld Remote must stay for DCS operators. Perhaps this opinion is overboard, but there may be more train people using the DCS Handheld Remote than will use an modern cell phone app to run trains.

Matt Makens posted:

Slow down Turbo, nobody said MTH is getting rid of the remote. The speculation is that MTH will not design a new remote. However thsi is all still speculation and none of it is based on any sort of actual facts.

Facts can change, but I take Mike W standing there and stating (as a direct response to a question from the audience) that he wasn't interested in building any more hardware remotes since the phone apps were doing well (and the costs involved being so much cheaper) is as close to a fact as I can see for this topic.

True, he did not state the old remote would be discontinued, just  that there would not be a new hardware remote in development. 

At some point the situation that surfaced with the old CAB-1 will likely come into play regarding the availability of parts used to build it.  Until that day comes, I'm sure MTH will have no problem continuing to make the old remote.

-Dave

As Bobby Ogage stated above, some of us old graybeards still have flip phones.  (And are still dragging their feet about getting an iPhone.) I did purchase an MTH wifi unit when they came out though. Grand kids all have some type of device (iPhone/ipad/ipod). We have an older, wifi only ipad.

I tried the MTH app on our old ipad which seemed to be a bit large for me to handle when running trains. I still plan to get the premium wifi app when MTH releases it, and I will probably update to an iPhone someday, but for now I like the DCS remote as it is and certainly hope they continue to make it.

I have been hearing there would be no new remote designed for at least a couple of years now. At least since the wifi and app was first talked about. Really, I like the old remote as is. Only thing might be a slightly larger display screen with better resolution. Maybe even a color screen?

rtr12 posted:

Really, I like the old remote as is. Only thing might be a slightly larger display screen with better resolution. Maybe even a color screen?

"Maybe even a color screen?"  Oh yea!

Hi All! I'm kind of new to all this remote stuff although I've been collecting trains since I was in my teens. I purchased the original Cab-1 Remote, Power-master and Powerhouse hoping to use it in the future. Life got in the way and now is the future! LOL! I've only used it two or three times to check out purchases that I have made and this time it is inop. Will not transmit to the PM. So to cut to the chase, would it be better of for me to just buy a MTH DCS system instead of investing in the Legacy system if MTH will support Legacy Locomotives? Most of my stuff is MTH with about 5 or 6 Lionel Legacy items. Thanks for any advice in advance.

In order to use DCS to run Legacy, you will need a command base of some sort (TMCC, 1L or Legacy base), so you might as well buy a Legacy set or cab-1L set. 

I would also suggest purchasing a Legacy system as well as a DCS system. It was stated above that adding the Legacy commands to the MTH app was still pure speculation at this point and not a sure thing. As was also stated above you will still need a Legacy base anyway. Having both systems is still the best way to go, IMO.

Okay, I missed the part of speculation. Thanks Guys. I guess I'll start saving up for both.

Maybe we will obtain some official insight.

Noted this new forum member today....

Could it really be???...    With the graphic combined with the Forum Sponsorship, I'm guessing maybe.

Count on it.