MTH Power Supplies and DCS TIU

I don't know what I'm missing here but something is wrong. I have 3 TIUs and run them with three Radio shack  power supplies. 

I use $3 eBay laptop power bricks to power the TIU, they work fine.  You just need something that's around 1.5 amps at from 12 to 22 volts, it can be AC or DC.  The laptop bricks at 18-19 volts and three or four amps are more than sufficient.

Maybe I misled everyone. I am talking about Fixed 1 and Fixed 2 along with the 1 & 2 variable channels not the Aux Power supply. You need18 volts for the channels whether variable or fixed. Hence a Z4000, or some other companies power supplies like Lionel's 180W Bricks. Sorry for the confusion. I just figured that was a given since I was talking about 18 volt power supplies. Why would you use a Z4000 for Aux power feed for a TIU? That is definitely overkill and some one with too much money.

You can not run the channels and run trains with a $3 transformer unless there is something I am definitely missing. That would make Lionel, MTH and all the rest very unhappy if that could be done. Like I said I misrepresented the statement evidently as I should have stated channels not Power (AUX). to m power meant the four channels. Sorry!

If you run large lash-ups with lighted cars you need to power each channel separately I believe. At least that is how I understood Barry's book. Course I could be wrong as that is my norm.

https://mthtrains.com/40-1000a

Engineer joe GOOD LUCK TRYING TO GET IT! I have not found an MTH dealer yet who can get them. All say they are out of stock. Only available in the combination with a controller. Including MTH themselves!

Wow! Not one of these sells them separately?

http://www.justrains.com/webst...0-brick-power-supply

CurtisH posted:

...Or I could purchase Lionel 180 Bricks. I am a big MTH fan but this makes NO sense to me that you sell a TIU and then if you want MTH have to buy a Z4000. Is it just me or is something wrong with this picture....

...So what are your thoughts please.

Right.  For DCS command-control with fixed track voltage, if you want to stay within the MTH "family" you either use the Z-1000 100 Watt brick-only ($89.95 MSRP) or else jump to the Z-4000 400 Watt controller ($479.95 MSRP).  Yes, the two Z-4000 channels could then drive your two fixed TIU channels to their full-power capability but clearly you're "paying" for the conventional/throttle control functions.  You would think they'd offer a "Z-2000 200 Watt brick" or something akin to the Lionel PH-180 180 Watt brick ($149.99 MSRP).

Actually, what fascinates me are the price-points of recent home-theater amplifiers.  For example,

So for less than $100, you can get hundreds of Watts per channel of stereo (i.e. two-channel) AC power.  Point being, 60 Hz is within the 20-20kHz audio band.  So why can't this "technology" simply blast out a 60 Hz pure-sine fixed voltage?  OK, it's not an apples-apples comparison but it does make one wonder.

I don't know why you'd insist on staying with the Z-1000 when you could have the Lionel PowerHouse 180 with almost twice the capacity, much better circuit breaker, etc. for the same money as the Z-1000 set.

Engineer Joe That is so funny showing the list of dealers. I checked with two of them and they both said they need to take it off the we listing as they can not get them. Also the dealer I went to is also listed there on the list and he told me that MTH has not supplied him with just the Z1000 brick for a very long time, hence him selling the complete package with controller. It is only another 6 dollars but still. Now I have three controllers that I do not need.

Gunrunnerjohn You are absolutely correct about the Lionel bricks. Wishing I had went that way. My point was though that MTH sells TIU's and does not sell a transformer, that people can find or get even directly from MTH, to power their product unless it is their top dollar transformer. That is like selling fords or chevy's with no motors because you only have V8's, no 6 or  4 cylinder engines so you sell the complete car minus the motor. I honestly should have just picked up 3 Lionel 180W Bricks. I guess I am surprised that a company as good as MTH does that. I really like their products but it  does leave me wondering about the methods of power.

Interesting - this would explain why there are so many Z Controllers and IR Controllers without power supplies on the market (eBay).

It is pretty surprising MTH doesn't have this together - considering the demands of their products.

They're almost inviting people to buy the more available LIONEL Product - which is the direction I'm going - tired of trying to scare up Z1000 at a decent price - even on the secondary market, you're lucky to find a Z1000 for under 80 bucks.

Boy, if it comes down to buying a 100W transformer with a mediocre circuit breaker vs. a 180W transformer with a great circuit breaker for similar prices, it's a really easy choice for me!

Or you could just use one of these;

https://www.mouser.com/product...pXqn4qmYW%2FRw%3D%3D

I have 8 loops now on my layout; two loops to each TIU channel (all channels on fixed).  I bought my transformer used on ebay.  (Two for around $100 including shipping).   The transformer is about 6"X6" square; has a transient noise filter, is an isolation type transformer, and weighs I would guess about 12 lbs.  Pure sine wave. You get two taps at 18v constant  (on each transformer in my case).  36 amp available total on each.  72 amps combined.  Will run on 115 or 230 volt input.

I also have an Airpax circuit breaker on each tap, between the transformer and TIU.  Along with a TVS on each. 

36 amps through the TIU will certainly toast things, you might want to re-think that.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

36 amps through the TIU will certainly toast things, you might want to re-think that.

 

That's what's available from each transformer.  Of course, I have a 10 amp Airpax circuit breaker on each output tap between the transformer and the TIU.  So the TIU will never see 36 amps.

And to be more specific; I run two transformers; each transformer has 2 18v constant output taps.  So with 2 transformers I have 4 total 18v outputs.  One tap per TIU channel.  Each channel then split for 2 independent loops; total 8 loops. 

BTW: I tested the Airpax breakers against several other types of fuses and breakers, including the high priced breaker people recommend on this site;  and Airpax is the fastest.  Though unscientific I suppose, I simply connected the breakers I wanted to compare in series and tripped a short  (no engines on track of course).  The Airpax would always trip first.  The breakers I use are the military spec delay "B", which I found "new old stock" on ebay for $12 each.  These are very expensive off the shelf at a retailer.  And I talked to a tech at Sensata before I bought them, told him what I was doing, and he said they should work fine for my application.  Which they have.

I might add that I also talked to a tech at Signal before I bought the transformers; he was quite helpful and told me what to look for in a transformer for my purpose, (isolated, noise suppression, pure sine wave, etc.) whether I bought an Signal MPI transformer or not.

What I'm finding out about this hobby is many people are locked into using just "hobby" equipment; they don't realize that there are usually other options out there.  Of course, when I mention using alternatives, then a few people will pop up and say, Oh, yeah, I also use a non-hobby transformer.  But I don't see these people pointing out the alternatives very often, until I mention it.  Or so it seems to me.