Need advice from those with ships on their layout......

Sounds nice.  Ocean steamer or Lake Freighter?

Mike

You've discovered the dilemma of ships and trains.  Most commercial boats, even small ocean-going commercial fishing boats, are bigger than a locomotive, to use a common item for comparison.  Take the Lionel tugboat, for example. It's pretty much accurate as to scale, but it's still twice the length and height of a typical Diesel loco.  I found a few nice and cheap wooden  fishing boats that scale out to about 1:64, cut the hulls off at the waterline, and plunked them down on my fake water.  They look big, but not overpowering.

I have a number of ship models.  A lot depends on the amount of detail, quality of paint job and the execution of the build.  There is much variability out there.  Is the model actually metal?  Does it have lights?  If well done, $450 is not bad for such a large model, particularly if metal and detailed (port lites, cleats, bollards, cargo cranes, running lights, anchors, etc.)  Do you know the beam (width); will it fit for you in that dimension?

Do the cargo hatches open?  If so you could have a crane on the dock loading it.  You could also build a tug to go next to it.

Arthur makes a good point about scale.  I had the Lionel tug and though correctly scaled it looked really awkward on the layout.  If you have a chance consider getting more measurements such as beam and height to mock it up on the layout in cardboard.

I have a 6' long sailing schooner (not a waterline) and it is a commanding presence in a room.  Such large models are not real common.  This could be a great opportunity to get unique piece.

Bill

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Sounds nice.  Ocean steamer or Lake Freighter?

Mike

Likely a laker....

Look at the Sunday scenic showcase from 2 or 3 weeks ago. I started it off with a Great Lakes Ore Carrier. It is about 4 feet long. It is not close to the real scale size. I built the deck in o scale and I think it looks very believable when it was placed on the customers waterway. I think one of the reasons was that the waterway was very narrow and that made the ship look bigger.

Go ahead and buy the ship. You can always modify it to your liking.

@Michael Hokkanen posted:

Visited an "antique" shop this morning and found a 60" (240 scale feet in O gauge) all metal cargo ship that somewhat resembles a laker cargo ship.

Even though this vessel is 6 feet long it will be under-scale to the real thing - but it looks gorgeous. And it might make a good background to my newly being developed harbor scene. I could set it against the back wall and place my 2 1:50 scale watercraft, a three masted sailing ship and a small diesel fishing boat, in front of it. It is a waterline style model which will sit upright on a flat surface.

I am trying to negotiate to get the price in the $300 range. He wants $450.

From YOUR experience with train layouts, ships, prices, and etc., what comments or advice do you have?

The reason I didn't include a picture is because it was on a high shelf and the older gentleman gave me a ladder to climb up to look at it rather than bringing it down.

Thanks soooo much for whatever you have to offer.

Marine railroading is awesome. A local train buddy  and I went crazy adding O scale boats, barges, docks etc. on our layouts that we bought mainly from a vender at the Big E, John Flaherty from CT, and we had a great time modeling water.

Check out this YouTube video: Marklin of Sweden Toilet Paper Plus White Glue Equals Realistic Water. That's the technique I used to make my removal river.

Great topic, now going out to dinner, will post photos and videos later. Arnold

I used a 48" scratch-built model of a railroad barge (New York harbor) on an HO layout to store cars. I didn'y try to inorporate it into a layout: at that size I would have become a ship modeler who had a few train cars for added detail. But it doesn't seem to me that 60" would overwhelm most people's O scale layouts. Check the doors to be sure you'll be satisfied with the scale and if so--go for it. People are fond of saying that railroad cars came in different sizes--but as you know, that's nothing to the variety of ship sizes, especially when you start involving canal and lock limitations.

These are coastal freighters that ply the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean Sea,  The Tamiami River in Miami usually with 100s of bicycles on their decks. We see 320 ft bulk/container ships here all the time.  They travel between the US and the Yucatan.  They can take bulk cargo or containers in their holds and containers on deck.  I recall the containers are stacked 6 x 3 x 2.

Jan

GO FOR IT! a ship(boat) and pier are great scenery and operations additions to a layout. A 240 foot freighter is not uncommon were used on the great lakes during the early part of the last century .  Many years ago OGR  ran an article of building a pier with tracks and an additional one of a 4 foot freighter. You're only limited by the size of the boat and the space available.

I built a 1900's era lake bulk carrier in 1:50 scale for my steel mill layout.  Ran from early 1900's to 1960's before scrapping. Size fits right in with O scale. Got plans from the Bay which were in 1:100, then enlarged them on my printer and used them for templates for construction. Here's a video of it.  Sits in front of a 3 track ore yard with an iron ore pile behind. Still needs me to construct a Hulett unloader for the pier.

Some of the ships described above are much bigger than what I have. Those on my layout are probably not true O Scale and would also otherwise be much smaller, which works fine with me.

This schooner was acquired at the Big E a little over 2 years ago.

Here are a few more boats and barges on my layout, again mostly acquired at that same Big E:

I think for large ships you can get away with selective compression as long as the deck is built in O scale or you get appropriate sized figures.

The watercraft l want is a river/creek gold dredge.  Will have to scratch build it.  Luckily, there is  one near Yellowstone, and another in Alaska (others?).  They are in various sizes, but will be a space eater.  We once had a two foot long ocean freighter? all welded sheet metal, found by an aunt in an antique shop. Kind of crude, but with welded ladders, and details.

I recommend smaller O scale vessels that don't overwhelm the scene:

That's nice looking Mike,  hope you can work out a deal with the shop owner.

@wbg pete posted:

I recommend smaller O scale vessels that don't overwhelm the scene.

Pete,

Very good advice.  I can think of only one exception to this rule, and that is when your vessel is the scene.

Check out Pere Marquette #22, one of our beloved car ferries here in Michigan, in 'O' scale', in this post:

       Pere Marquette No. 22, by modeler Tom Sawyer, at P&D Hobby Shop | Brian_F (RailRoadFan.com)

Mike

Michael

Did you acquire the ship model?  Its good looking, but doesn't quite look like a laker; I wonder what the prototype was.  The superstructure and bridge look unusual.  Looks like you have some rigging repair to do.  Great find.  Will make an impressive display; you got me thinking about looking for something like this.

Bill

Looks like a nice ship  It actually looks like one of those Liberty ships from WWII that were moored in the Hudson for so long

I think bluelinec4 is on to something with the liberty ship idea.  I took a look at google images of liberty ships and it could be.   The images show that there were a lot of variations.

The model (folk art) made by an old German soldier after WWI is based on THIS ship on which he was part of the crew. The actual ship was owned by four countries and I am the fourth owner, yes I bought it, of the model. Major restoration to begin in the fall. Here are the details of the ship:

S.S. Wartburg, a 5586 gross ton (10,475 tons displacement) freighter, was built at Newcastle, England, in 1900. Prior to World War I she operated commercially under the German flag, with her name being changed to Tübingen in 1906-1907. When the outbreak of World War I in August 1914 made the high seas unsafe for German shipping, she took refuge in an American port and was seized when the United States entered the conflict in April 1917. Renamed Seneca, she was part of the U.S. merchant marine until February 1918, when she was acquired by the Navy and placed in commission as USS Wabash (ID # 1824). The ship made her first voyage as a unit of the Naval Overseas Transportation Service in February-April, steaming from the U.S. to France and back. During her second such trip, while in convoy on the foggy night of 22 May 1918, Wabash collided with the U.S. Navy patrol vessel Wakiva, sinking her. During the rest of the First World War, and in the months following the 11 November 1918 Armistice, she completed three more round-trip Atlantic crossings. USS Wabashwas decommissioned in April 1919 and returned to the U.S. Shipping Board. Subsequently, she operated commericially under the U.S. flag until the mid-1920s, when she was transferred to Italian registry.

wgb.pete - Your water scene is absolutely gorgeous and I did wrestle with exactly the point you made about using smaller ships. My first three were indeed 2 small fishing boat and a medium sized three masted sailing ship. However, when I saw the rare and intriguing 58" freighter that logic went out the door. My ships are positioned way to the rear and far right corner of a 9' x 24' layout. The entire water area is only 14" by 60" long. The scene is not supposed to be of great detail but merely representative of some marine activity close to the light house. It is always viewed from a distance.  Again, kudos on what you have done - it is outstanding to be sure......

@ogaugenut posted:

Michael

Did you acquire the ship model?  Its good looking, but doesn't quite look like a laker; I wonder what the prototype was.  The superstructure and bridge look unusual.  Looks like you have some rigging repair to do.  Great find.  Will make an impressive display; you got me thinking about looking for something like this.

Bill

Yes, I did. A full description of the actual ship's history from US Navy archives is post above.....

Michael

That is great that you have such a thorough history of that ship.   Makes it so much more meaningful.  Also, you can probably find details to help with the rehab project.  Rehab looks very doable.  Please send us pictures of the rehab.

Bill

@ogaugenut posted:

Michael

That is great that you have such a thorough history of that ship.   Makes it so much more meaningful.  Also, you can probably find details to help with the rehab project.  Rehab looks very doable.  Please send us pictures of the rehab.

Bill

Can do.

@Michael Hokkanen posted:

wgb.pete - Your water scene is absolutely gorgeous and I did wrestle with exactly the point you made about using smaller ships. My first three were indeed 2 small fishing boat and a medium sized three masted sailing ship. However, when I saw the rare and intriguing 58" freighter that logic went out the door. My ships are positioned way to the rear and far right corner of a 9' x 24' layout. The entire water area is only 14" by 60" long. The scene is not supposed to be of great detail but merely representative of some marine activity close to the light house. It is always viewed from a distance.  Again, kudos on what you have done - it is outstanding to be sure......

Mike,

Go for it!!!   Also, thanks for your gracious comments re my layout.

Me, I had enough of big "boats" (aircraft carriers) in my Navy career     Six full deployments and numerous carquals were enough...

@wbg pete posted:

Mike,

Go for it!!!   Also, thanks for your gracious comments re my layout.

Me, I had enough of big "boats" (aircraft carriers) in my Navy career     Six full deployments and numerous carquals were enough...

My dad was aboard the New Orleans at Leyte Gulf, my mom was a Navy pharmacist, my brother Coast Guard, my brother Army, my Uncles Marines & Coast Guard, and I, myself, Air Force. Thank you for all you did......

Now, about an airport..................... !!!!!

Thank you all for your service.