Okay, I need some advice and guidance please. I was fortunate to have @DoubleDAZ help me with scarm to get my layout planned. I just received my track and put it on the platform. Although I am still waiting for some parts to come in before doing roadbed, etc. I need help with how this should be wired with my current setup. I am on a limited budget and both my trains ran fine on my Lionel fast track. One is a new L1 Mikado and the other is a 1950's Sante Fe transformer/conventional driven. I pre-ordered the base 3. Outside of that, I have no other systems, other than Lionchief app. The base 3 will also come with Cab3 app. I have never built a layout and have limited idea on how this all works. My power source is an old ZW that was refurbished and works perfectly. I also bought a little protection for the L1 and as stated before, both trains rain perfectly before the new build. I have watched 100 videos on this topic and none match specifically what I have. I am wondering if someone has experience similar to mine? Most people I have seen either have new setups or only old setups. I would still like to run the Sante Fe, with the transformer. I have seen it done, just not the wiring piece. I am trying to convince my wife to get a new Sante Fe set and display hers on the wall. It is in pristine condition and all the other ones I have seen are old and scratched up. Even if I am only able to run new trains, again I need someone to help me with basic guidance. Attached is the layout designed by @DoubleDAZ So there is clarity on the ask, the design is for any train to run on all tracks. The outer loop will be raised or inner, still working that out. There are 6 switches to allow for this to happen. Does each loop need to be on seperate power? If so, how does that affect the transformer controlled train? Can both loops be on one power source? I have seen many large layouts with ZW and a 180 brick, but this layout is small 80"x80" And, based on my experience with FastTrack, i have plenty of power. Over the holiday I had both trains running from the ZW on seperate tracks (Lionel FastTrack, which I traded in for the upgrade to Atlas O . To test, I put in 1 terminal block in the middle of layout and used a couple alligator clips to clamp on a straight line with my Mikado on it. It powers up, but not fully, not enough power to even connect to the app or make any sounds,light in cab flickers, so clearly i am doing something wrong. Again, I am a novice to the hobby and need as much help as possible. Thanks ahead of time!
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Good start
You could wire your layout in the old school manner setting up traditional "blocks". If you wait until you have the Base 3 you can just put power to everything and let the Command System run the trains.
From your post, the fact you have a 1950's Loco, and sounds like you want to get started soon, I would recommend the block approach. Wiring Atlas track vs Fastrack as far as the electrical end really is the same. So if the way you to ran the trains on the fastrack worked for you, just adapt that to your new layout. Your ZW can run up to 4 conventional trains independently. On the other hand, probably would prefer to just use the 2 main throttles. With 2 throttle circuits you can create as many blocks as you want and just have switches on each block to choose which curcuit you are using. For the size of your layout that is what I would recommend.
If you want more guidance, contact me through a private message and we will set-up a phone call.
@MainLine Steam I know we will talk later, but the difference on the new setup is, it is 2 loops, but 1 track. I had o72 oval and 036 oval before. I am using logic to assume I just need one power line for the whole thing. The plan was to be able to have either train run all loops, hence the 6 (was 7) switches. I am aware the L1 just needs power, as I use the app to run it now. Honestly, it is more of needing confirmation that even though it is 2 loops, it is still one track as they are connected by 6 switches. Until I get the base 3, I highly doubt I will run both trains on the layout. I just do not want to hook up the wires incorrectly and have to redo everything. I think my logic is right...yes, no?
Oooops o72 and 036 seperate ovals, no switches or connections to each other....
You need to add circuit breaker protection to the outputs of the ZW. The internal breakers of Lionel transformers (until into the 2000s) were designed to protect the transormer not the engines. The circuit breakers would kick in as long as 10-15 seconds. You need FAR faster reaction than that.
The NEWER transformers all have these protections built in, as do the external power bricks.
In the postwar- 1990s days, there were no electronics in the engines. But today, a derailment can cause a spike that will smoke the boards in the engines.
I used 5 amp Eaton-FAZ-B rail-mounts on all transformer outputs. Then later added TVS diodes at the transformers to protect from external spikes. (most will say to use the TVS' IN the engines- I did not do that.)
BUT it still happened - after 5 years or so, I ruined the electronics in a Legacy locomotive because of a derailment- at least I THINK that was the cause, although it could have been another factor. I just don't know how I could do something else as far as protecting the locos.
There are MANY posts on this subject- so many as to be confusing. I really do not undersand the ones saying to use fuses, though. Why have to replace a fuse after a derailament?
General information about the Eaton breakers as a starting point.
@Mike Wyatt I have protection for the newer engines, as I am aware of the ZW issue. Appreciate the help.
Attachments
One question; why did you shift from fasTrak to Atlas?
@Rod Stewart I like the look of Atlas and the FastTrack is LOUD. We sold the big house 5 years ago and downsized to an apartment. The trains only came out at Xmas and rarely ran because of the noise.
@Dntbsillynow posted:@Rod Stewart I like the look of Atlas and the FastTrack is LOUD. We sold the big house 5 years ago and downsized to an apartment. The trains only came out at Xmas and rarely ran because of the noise.
Gotcha, FasTrack is loud on any bare surface, especially wood. Best for a smallish or temporary layout is to cover the table with indoor/outdoor carpet such as that sold at Home depot. I forget its exact name but its available in gray and a dark green color, amongst others. And FasTrack joints stay together quite well with minimal track fastening.
Rod
IMHO (for what it's worth!) you would be better advised to run each of your two loops separately from the A and D handle outputs respectively of the ZW, and use the other two handles (levers really) for accessory power for buildings, switches, etc. That way you can run both trains independently, one on each loop if you wish.
You should use several power feeds to each loop, maybe about 3 for that layout size spreadout evenly. I assume the Tinman "blackbox" has TVS capability, so I would use one in the power feed to each loop. And definitely either use a 10 amp breaker or fuse in the hot lead feed to each loop. 14 AWG track power wire should be just fine. Only my suggestions FWIW.
Rod
Thanks everyone for the help! @MainLine Steam appreciate the 2 hour call today. I attached the photo of the bottom of the platform bus lines. @MainLine Steam I actually ordered the switches from Amazon and they will be here in the am. My terminal joiners won't be here until Tuesday, so nothing is dropped yet, but the main power for the layout has been run. I can now focus on the top as there is a ton of work to do before getting to what we talked about, but will be utilizing your suggestion as well. At least this part is done. Inner loop on A and outer on D. Switches are on B. Again, a ton to do, but the main power lines have been run. Now we wait for more supplies. Thanks for the help everyone!
Attachments
Happy to help! Terminal blocks are an excellent idea instead of just wire nuts and a jumble of wire. Looking great, keep moving ahead.