New Power Drive for MTH European Traxx Engine

Hi Stefan, Thank's for these interesting pic's. This engine has one power truck with the available room to possibly do two? The Lucite truck mount is for insulation? My MTH AEM-7's came with twin Mabuchi (ugh) motors, but in Europe, they get a Maxon motor? I'd really like to get my hands on one of those powered trucks. The detail on those drivers is light years ahead of the ones on my AEM. This assembly remind's me of a NWSL SPUD drive on steroids.

Also noticed that it has nylon gears and not all metal as they advertise in the U.S. 

Hi guys,

 

I'm sure Stefan will clarify but it looks like plastic gears and maxon motor are new parts that his modification adds.  They're not re-used MTH components.  I haven't had a TRAXX engine apart personally, but I believe they have the same drive as any other twin motor MTH engine.  In the top photo it appears that both trucks have been modified and there will be two motors, but the modification is "in progress."

 

Stefan, I'm curious about a couple details on this modification.  Is there a motor option that includes a flywheel?  Is it possible to retain the PS3 decoder rather than convert to a DCC only ESU decoder?

BASEMENTBILL, Yes, the drive is designed for two power trucks, we are currently short on motors. Yeah, we use Lucite or other non-metal for insulation. No, all stock MTH products are here exactly the same as they are in America. What we made in a entirely new chassis with two trucks and a frame that can hold all parts from the MTH stock model. This drive system is not really light years ahead, we suggessfully use this drive system for 60years now. We never had a single drive failing since!

 

pennsydave, yes we use nylon gears for over 2 decades now and never had a problem. We usually use a mix of steel, brass and nylon gears. This way, the drive is very smooth and quiet and no lubricarion in required. An all-metal gear is just noisy and needs lots of oil.

 

Dave, yes this is an entirely new drive, the only parts we re-use are cosmetic parts such as the shell, cab interior, LED assemblies, center bottom parts, pilots and truck side frames - everything else is new.

If you look carefully, you will see that we use a unique worm gear. This is a free spinning drive unless as the MTH stock drive. We never use flywheels. One of the two concerns from our customers are the PS-3 boards and its performance. So we don't see why we should put a system in it that's not relaiable. But of corse, if a customer wants DCS in it, we will do it...

 

Regards, Stefan

 

Hi Stefan,

 

One of the two concerns from our customers are the PS-3 boards and its performance. So we don't see why we should put a system in it that's not reliable.

 

Have your customers actually had problems with PS3, or are they simple more familiar with their ESU decoders?  Does ESU have a better sound set for the TRAXX?  We have certainly had good results here with PS3 decoders on DCC.  The motor control is more consistent than any other decoder on the market.  Nothing will consist as reliably or consistently out of the box as a PS3 engine.

...here are just a few more pictures for those who are still interested.

It's not just the customers, also we also had discovered problems with the DCS system. Well, all I can say is that I replaced way too many PS-3 boards for a reliable and consistent digital system. Things work different here in Europe, MTH has to get that too. Yes, the ESU sound file is much better. We had PS-3 decoders failing while testing! We had decoders failing after 15min  in service at the customer. As a service center, you look pretty stubid when this happens more then once!

 

Thanks Stefan, very interesting article. BASEMENTBILL, what is your beef with Mabuchi?

 

Hi Dave, Some of the Mabuchi motors MTH uses have a nasty habit of cogging at low speeds. Maybe some of the magnets are stronger than the others. Also, the flimsy little brush holder fingers have a bad habit of popping off their mounting pin rendering the motor useless. A while back, I destroyed one of these dead motors trying to take it apart, maybe just to see what it's innerd's looked like. For the life of me, I can't figure out their assembly sequence when putting these together.

Hi Stefan,

 

Just out of curiosity what is so different over there with DCC than here?

 

Ralph

Ralph, it is not a matter of the difference of DCC on your side of the pound or on my side of the pound. It is much more the difference between any DCC system and MTH's PS-3 system. I don't know yet what it is but there is something I just haven't figured out what. One hint I have is the power source (120V/60Hz vs. 240V/50Hz), but I have no proof yet.

Regards,

Bill, it may be a particular model. We use Mabuchi motors in our Darstaed locos and they are faultless. Generally, Japanese made Mabuchi motors are highly regarded. I know what you mean about trying to take one apart. I think that's why they call them maintenance free. They are such an inexpensive item, they aren't meant to be repaired.

The idea looks the same to me as the standard MTH setup, the differences being the gear material and the motor orientation.  The dissimilar materials in the spur gears has to be better, but we have never had a spur gear failure, ever.  Some of my O Scale friends are convinced that vertically mounted motors just do not work as well as horizontal motors, so you are on the right track for them.

 

very intresting, could be usefill to trolly modelers.  Might be intresting for repowering some old dteet cars for 3-rail use, however the motor would need to be mounted over the truck for the tight street trackage turns.

This sure is interesting for other use Mike, but that all comes at a price. These drives are handmade in Switzerland. You probarbly spend more money on the drive then you do on the engine itself.

Regards,

What is the price of a converted drive with DCC sound decoder?

 

I'm still intrigued by the trouble you have had with PS3 decoders.  I would think that the way DCC functions would eliminate any possible issues with 240v/50Hz wall power.  In the US, most DCC users run their layouts at around 15 volts.  What voltage is common in Switzerland?  Do you know, have the engines been running on layouts equipped with RailCom?

Dave, we are talking about a price tag of approximately 2500swiss francs, including dummy engine for the conversation.
We still don't know about the high failure rate of the PS-3 decoders, fact is they fail where other decoders don't.

Regards,

Lafondue,

 

I heartily agree with your statement that you "Don't understand why MTH for the 2 rail Euro market just forget DCS.....et seq".    There was a post on Facebook on the 30th August concering a re-run of the French Chapelon locos, and although I have 10 CIWL cars, I don't have a suitable locomotive to haul them yet.   So I posted that I would be inclined to buy one if they were available without DCS, leaving me to choose whatever digital control I preferred.

 

I was surprised when the MTH reply came back; "I will certainly pass your comments along".   However, I think it unlikely that MTH will ever sell their products without their own in-house DCS.    In fact, I think that there isn't a snowballs chance in **** of this happening.   I know a guy with a Duchess Pacific that needs to be almost conned into running, and the whole system was panned in a review of the S3/6 German loco that was published in the 'O Gauge Gazette'.   

 

From the side of the Atlantic DCS looks to me like a bad investment, so I'll wait until I can do better, but it is likely to be a long wait.

 

Ed  

These Custom modified TRAXX Engines seem to have a large price connected to them; how many do you make for sale in Europe ?

Lafondue, yes this is the production sample of the BLS Connecting Europe version. It has many flaws in the painting, the gray color of the chassis is too light. Lettering is incorrect too. Yes, this drive is way to expensive for most here, but quality came at a price. Hey, this thing literaly runs like a swiss watch!
We do not sell narrow gauge because its simply not our business. But if I get more info about the Bemo narrow gauge stuff, I can hook you up with one of our dealers if you want to, he is the specialist for that.

Lafondue, yes this is the production sample of the BLS Connecting Europe version. It has many flaws in the painting, the gray color of the chassis is too light. Lettering is incorrect too. Yes, this drive is way to expensive for most here, but quality came at a price. Hey, this thing literaly runs like a swiss watch!
We do not sell narrow gauge because its simply not our business. But if I get more info about the Bemo narrow gauge stuff, I can hook you up with one of our dealers if you want to, he is the specialist for that.

Re: the DCS problem.  These are easily removed, and bring a good price on eBay.  As nice as these models look, and being the correct size for the track gauge, if I modeled European railroads, DCS would not be an obstacle at all.  You lucky guys . . .

Hi Stefan, although I don't model European prototypes, I think what you're doing is great!  A lot of the factory drives, especially in diesels and electrics, are mediocre at best, and rely on electronic trickery to achieve acceptable performance.  Yours looks like a good quality alternative.

 

Your photos bring to mind a couple of questions:  The worm seems to have a large lead angle.  Is it reversible, i.e., can the wheels turn the motor?  Does it coast when power is cut?  Also, how much gear reduction are you getting through the worm (first stage), and how much through the spur gear train?

 

I say "keep up the good work!"  Maybe you'll do a replacement drive for Postwar steam next!  

Ted Sowirka, you are absolutely right, MTH's and Lionel's drive systems on electric and diesel engines are from at least three decades ago and haven't changed since. All so called "China-Drives" have the same poor running quality. I would even say that they are outdated long ago.
You are correct about our drive, the wheels spin the motor and when power is cut off the engine will coast. I can't tell you our gear reduction from the top of my head, I'd have to look into the books next week.
This project with the costum chassis was demanded from our costumers, so if we get enough request to make a postwar steam drive, we will look into it, no question!

Regards,

Ted Sowirka, you are absolutely right, MTH's and Lionel's drive systems on electric and diesel engines are from at least three decades ago and haven't changed since. All so called "China-Drives" have the same poor running quality. I would even say that they are outdated long ago.
You are correct about our drive, the wheels spin the motor and when power is cut off the engine will coast. I can't tell you our gear reduction from the top of my head, I'd have to look into the books next week.
This project with the costum chassis was demanded from our costumers, so if we get enough request to make a postwar steam drive, we will look into it, no question!

Regards,