Pretty cool news, always good to see WBB brining out new product. Also good to hear they're finally brining out a badly-need sound system upgrade. One question though; I'm assuming that just like with their previous conventional sound systems, the sound will cut out along with cycling of track power, right? Or will this new system have a battery or capacitor to allow for uninterrupted sounds during power cycling?
Originally Posted by John Korling:
Pretty cool news, always good to see WBB brining out new product. Also good to hear they're finally brining out a badly-need sound system upgrade. One question though; I'm assuming that just like with their previous conventional sound systems, the sound will cut out along with cycling of track power, right? Or will this new system have a battery or capacitor to allow for uninterrupted sounds during power cycling?
John,
I don't have any idea about what they're coming out with but I do know that all of the Soundtraxx Tsunami line of decoders come with a user installed capacitor. All their decoders I've installed have had them in the package.
David
Exciting announcement...too bad I don't like GP30's.
One of their scale GG1's with sound would be killer!
Originally Posted by yankspride4:
Exciting announcement...too bad I don't like GP30's. One of their scale GG1's with sound would be killer!
I would stay tuned. I looks like that could be in the cards in the future and even better a drop in board for your current GG-1!
Guys,
I forgot to include this info about Soundtraxx. Now I don't know if Bachmann will do this but maybe they'll do it in the Soundtraxx boards that Bachmann says it will make available for engines that didn't come with them.
Soundtraxx has a "No fault" Warranty on their decoders . For the first year it doesn't matter if you burnt it up, it burnt up on it's own or what happened to it . Soundtraxx will replace or repair it at their option no questions asked.
I think that pretty much tells you what kind of quality you can expect from them.
David
DPC said.
I also think you'll see not a data interface to the TMCC boards because of patent issues with Lionel but a direct connection to the motor wires to supply motor feedback to the boards for revs . This is the way the Tsunami boards work now. So you could have a stand alone board that give you motor sounds up and down even with the track at 18 volts
Didnt Lionel mention that others could create thier own sound systms and interface with Lionel TMCC? ERR did this before they where purchased by Lionel. The only reason ERR droped their system was parts used to make it became obsolete. As far as I recall you had to use the supplied by Lionel Radio board.
Originally Posted by DPC:
Originally Posted by Dave Allen:
Wow, that is very good news, and we can retrofit older locos! Yes Bachmann, thank you!! I'm not bothered with cab chatter either. So when are they going to make a DCC decoder option?
When they make a DCC capable engine. One with insulated axles, one that runs solely on DC. I think Bachmann has done their homework very well. Just being in bed with Soundtraxx is a major coup. They're one of the most popular makers of DCC command and sound decoders out there. These guys don't sit on their laurels either . If they see a demand for their product(and I'm sure they will) they'll do anything they can to improve it. I think you'll soon see sound boards with selective horns something like the little MRC sounder so you can have an EMD prime mover and a Dash-8 horn.
I also think you'll see not a data interface to the TMCC boards because of patent issues with Lionel but a direct connection to the motor wires to supply motor feedback to the boards for revs . This is the way the Tsunami boards work now. So you could have a stand alone board that give you motor sounds up and down even with the track at 18 volts.
I hope the "Big two" see the writing on the wall. For anyone thats interested Soundtraxx has their own web site and it may just be worth a visit.
David
David, given that MTH PS2 (newer) and PS3 operate on dc, and given that the PS3 board has DCC inbuilt, I don't think that a DCC option is that far away from reality or possibility.
As for insulated wheels for 2 rail running, not necessarily the way to go. 3 rail DC and DCC is done presently. Darstaed, Bassett Lowke, Ace, all 3 rail DC some 2-3 rail switchable, and I'm planning offering DCC in Darstaed. Given that Bachmann are huge world players in DCC, I think is an obvious move.
Originally Posted by yankspride4:
Exciting announcement...too bad I don't like GP30's. One of their scale GG1's with sound would be killer!
Since GG1s were electrics, I wouldn't imagine the engine sounds being "killer." Electrics aren't exactly known for having loud prime movers. 
John
I beg to differ New Haven ran the rectifiers down to the car floats by my house You could hear thos things coming a mile away.
I'm with you Ben. Its a combination of Blowers, motors ,compressors and mechanical noises with electrics and sounds could differ depending on the loco design and builder.
Originally Posted by Mike Slater:
DPC said.
I also think you'll see not a data interface to the TMCC boards because of patent issues with Lionel but a direct connection to the motor wires to supply motor feedback to the boards for revs . This is the way the Tsunami boards work now. So you could have a stand alone board that give you motor sounds up and down even with the track at 18 volts
Didnt Lionel mention that others could create thier own sound systms and interface with Lionel TMCC? ERR did this before they where purchased by Lionel. The only reason ERR droped their system was parts used to make it became obsolete. As far as I recall you had to use the supplied by Lionel Radio board.
The original TMCC was "open source" meaning all the command codes were published and open for use by other manufacturers in their products. ERR in fact made sound boards that would work with TMCC, of course now he is with Lionel and his boards have been discontinued, but not because of patents.
Legacy features are NOT open source and like DCS is covered by patents and trade secret laws.
If Bachmann chooses not to have a TMCC interface for their sound cards it will probably be because of costs or not wanting to promote a competitors system. They would sell a bunch of them though, RS4 sound sets are pretty limited..
Neil
Originally Posted by Dave Allen:
Originally Posted by DPC:
Originally Posted by Dave Allen:
Wow, that is very good news, and we can retrofit older locos! Yes Bachmann, thank you!! I'm not bothered with cab chatter either. So when are they going to make a DCC decoder option?
When they make a DCC capable engine. One with insulated axles, one that runs solely on DC. I think Bachmann has done their homework very well. Just being in bed with Soundtraxx is a major coup. They're one of the most popular makers of DCC command and sound decoders out there. These guys don't sit on their laurels either . If they see a demand for their product(and I'm sure they will) they'll do anything they can to improve it. I think you'll soon see sound boards with selective horns something like the little MRC sounder so you can have an EMD prime mover and a Dash-8 horn.
I also think you'll see not a data interface to the TMCC boards because of patent issues with Lionel but a direct connection to the motor wires to supply motor feedback to the boards for revs . This is the way the Tsunami boards work now. So you could have a stand alone board that give you motor sounds up and down even with the track at 18 volts.
I hope the "Big two" see the writing on the wall. For anyone thats interested Soundtraxx has their own web site and it may just be worth a visit.
David
David, given that MTH PS2 (newer) and PS3 operate on dc, and given that the PS3 board has DCC inbuilt, I don't think that a DCC option is that far away from reality or possibility.
As for insulated wheels for 2 rail running, not necessarily the way to go. 3 rail DC and DCC is done presently. Darstaed, Bassett Lowke, Ace, all 3 rail DC some 2-3 rail switchable, and I'm planning offering DCC in Darstaed. Given that Bachmann are huge world players in DCC, I think is an obvious move.
You know Dave your right,
I really didn't think about that avenue but given the fact that Bachmann is a huge DCC player even to the point of having their own line of DCC operating systems and given the fact that MTH because of their HO line are now getting some DCC experience somebody just might be left out in the cold fairly soon . Now I won't mention any names but their stuff comes in an orange and blue box.
Now if I was head of Bachmann and I wanted to give MTH a little low cost competition in Europe. What system would I adapt my engines to? PS3 or TMCC/Legacy?
Well we know that's not going to happen. Bachmanns going to use the system most Europeans already have which is DCC, making a Williams purchase a even more attractive value.
Looks like times they are a changin.
David
Since Lionel published its TMCC operating codes a long time ago, it seems like Bachmann/Soundtraxx should be able to design a TMCC interface for their new sound board without any patent issues. As Lionel will never make Bachmann a TMCC licensee, Bachmann should at least make their locos command ready so you could buy an ERR Cruise Commander, drop it in, and with a few pre made wiring harnesses have a command and sound equipped loco.
Ken
Any word on when Bachmann will post detailed photos on their website? How about delivery?
Fred
their facebook page said their photos will be taken this week
MTH said at the Grandstand meeting that you would be able to run their trains with a smartphone via wifi.
I think more people have a smartphone than a Legacy / Command control system, I would rather see WBB go that route.
I ordered the new B&M F3 AA unit and B unit and they are saying October. I believe it will have the new sound board in it!
Originally Posted by Bob Delbridge:
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Their choices of RRs leaves me bewildered.
ACL only had 9 of these were as SAL had 34. Hopefully they'll see good sales and offer these in other roadnames.
I think part of the reason for black and yellow ACL is that I believe the Original EMD painted ads for these in the 60s in magazines like Trains had color ACL GP30s as color centerfold ads. At a time when the whole magazine was black and white with a red accent on the cover. This color scheme is usually ignored over the silver and purple ACL so I'm happy to see it. I'll be looking into one.
somebody just might be left out in the cold fairly soon . Now I won't mention any names but their stuff comes in an orange and blue box.
You might be suprised to learn what they are working on. At least in S for right now.
Originally Posted by jonnyspeed:
somebody just might be left out in the cold fairly soon . Now I won't mention any names but their stuff comes in an orange and blue box.
You might be suprised to learn what they are working on. At least in S for right now.
sure hope it's DCC related. With MTH and now Bachmann in the arena I'd say that to think a big change isn't coming would be like burying your head in the sand.
Bachmann would have little trouble re wheeling some of their On30 line for S scale and they're DCC experts.
David
The DCC option efforts for a certain producer of S gauge equipment was mentioned before in the Forum by a person definitely in the know. It would extend the product appeal to S Scale modelers who run with DCC.
If I were a person in the know, I think I might want to see how a Legacy system or maybe a DCS could be simply upgraded to run in the DCC mode as well.If it incorporated the programming simplicity that Legacy and DCS now have, That would be even better.
Not withstanding what this thread was originally about, I think the Williams GP30 is a very nice model and the addition of some engine sounds plus a playable horn and bell is a nice extra. If you add cruise and Command capability , you will surely bring the price level into the realm of MTH and Lionel . Not sure that WBB wants to go there since quality at a lower price level is what they now give and what many forumites asked them to continue when it became WBB.
Originally Posted by DPC:
Originally Posted by Dave Allen:
Originally Posted by DPC:
Originally Posted by Dave Allen:
Wow, that is very good news, and we can retrofit older locos! Yes Bachmann, thank you!! I'm not bothered with cab chatter either. So when are they going to make a DCC decoder option?
When they make a DCC capable engine. One with insulated axles, one that runs solely on DC. I think Bachmann has done their homework very well. Just being in bed with Soundtraxx is a major coup. They're one of the most popular makers of DCC command and sound decoders out there. These guys don't sit on their laurels either . If they see a demand for their product(and I'm sure they will) they'll do anything they can to improve it. I think you'll soon see sound boards with selective horns something like the little MRC sounder so you can have an EMD prime mover and a Dash-8 horn.
I also think you'll see not a data interface to the TMCC boards because of patent issues with Lionel but a direct connection to the motor wires to supply motor feedback to the boards for revs . This is the way the Tsunami boards work now. So you could have a stand alone board that give you motor sounds up and down even with the track at 18 volts.
I hope the "Big two" see the writing on the wall. For anyone thats interested Soundtraxx has their own web site and it may just be worth a visit.
David
David, given that MTH PS2 (newer) and PS3 operate on dc, and given that the PS3 board has DCC inbuilt, I don't think that a DCC option is that far away from reality or possibility.
As for insulated wheels for 2 rail running, not necessarily the way to go. 3 rail DC and DCC is done presently. Darstaed, Bassett Lowke, Ace, all 3 rail DC some 2-3 rail switchable, and I'm planning offering DCC in Darstaed. Given that Bachmann are huge world players in DCC, I think is an obvious move.
You know Dave your right,
I really didn't think about that avenue but given the fact that Bachmann is a huge DCC player even to the point of having their own line of DCC operating systems and given the fact that MTH because of their HO line are now getting some DCC experience somebody just might be left out in the cold fairly soon . Now I won't mention any names but their stuff comes in an orange and blue box.
Now if I was head of Bachmann and I wanted to give MTH a little low cost competition in Europe. What system would I adapt my engines to? PS3 or TMCC/Legacy?
Well we know that's not going to happen. Bachmanns going to use the system most Europeans already have which is DCC, making a Williams purchase a even more attractive value.
Looks like times they are a changin.
David
Of course what we both have said is pure speculation, but to add to what you have said about Williams and DCC in Europe, Bachmann have a huge presence in the UK and Europe already, and sell O gauge and Gauge1 under the Brassworks line. You have to remember, Kader/Bachmann are the biggest model train makers in the world. Anything is possible if they decide to do it because they have the resources to make it happen.
And returning to the topic of this thread, I really like this loco and the little improvements to current locos, like SD90's. It's a comforting move by Bachmann to the Williams line, and I will enjoy watching where they go in future.
Anyone offering pre-orders on the GP 30 yet? I have not seen the model posted on the WBB web site, so I suppose its too early. I am ready to order two of the GNs!
Originally Posted by BucksCo:
Here you go....
I really like the NYC version. Might have to get that one in the future. Thanks for posting those photos.
Bob D., the purple and silver ACL engines were more popular, however I doubt they ever had a GP30 in those colors. I'll have to look it up. So if black and yellow is all they have, I'll take it. It will be the only one I have in that color. My main concern is the height of this engine. Will it go through a Lionel post war bascule bridge or even the more modern vertical lift bridge. The clearance on both is about 4 1/4 inches maybe 4 3/8 at the most. I think that's why I passed on the MTH version of the GP30. That hump behind the cab sticks up more than say a GP9.
Ray
they look great! I hope they come out with a B&O version 
Ray,
Black and Yellow is OK with me too. That's all I recall seeing when I was a kid.
I hope Bachmann offers kits for converting other engines and I hope they make all new engines with slower initial speeds.
The ACL changed from purple to black in 1958 when Tom Rice took over. The GP30s were always black, and may have been the first locomotives delivered in the new scheme.
Originally Posted by kanawha:
Since Lionel published its TMCC operating codes a long time ago, it seems like Bachmann/Soundtraxx should be able to design a TMCC interface for their new sound board without any patent issues. As Lionel will never make Bachmann a TMCC licensee, Bachmann should at least make their locos command ready so you could buy an ERR Cruise Commander, drop it in, and with a few pre made wiring harnesses have a command and sound equipped loco.
Ken
TMCC was introduced in 1995, IIRC. 1995 was 17 years ago.
Patents last 17 years. The basic TMCC patents are a NON ISSUE.
Originally Posted by techie:
TMCC was introduced in 1995, IIRC. 1995 was 17 years ago.
Patents last 17 years. The basic TMCC patents are a NON ISSUE.
Unless Lionel somehow successfully petitions to get an extension on their original TMCC patents. That practice has been done before by other businesses and individuals, albeit extremely rare since you'd have to have a pretty good compelling argument to justify it to the Patent office.
Originally Posted by techie:
Originally Posted by kanawha:
Since Lionel published its TMCC operating codes a long time ago, it seems like Bachmann/Soundtraxx should be able to design a TMCC interface for their new sound board without any patent issues. As Lionel will never make Bachmann a TMCC licensee, Bachmann should at least make their locos command ready so you could buy an ERR Cruise Commander, drop it in, and with a few pre made wiring harnesses have a command and sound equipped loco.
Ken
TMCC was introduced in 1995, IIRC. 1995 was 17 years ago.
Patents last 17 years. The basic TMCC patents are a NON ISSUE.
Aint gonna happen. Soundtraxx is it's own company. They've more than got their hands full with the lions share of the N and HO DCC decoder market.
Soundtraxx has no desire to develop a board that would be compatible with another companys obsolete system(TMCC) and no desire to further pursue any AC compatible board for the O scale market other than the ones they are supplying to Bachmann at this time .
This was the answer I got to my inquiry as to a stand alone AC sound board that would use motor feedback to vary the diesel revs from Soundtraxx.
Now thats the answer from Soundtraxx but if Bachmann see's a market who knows what will happen. Like Dave Allen said ,Kader isn't the biggest maker of toy trains in the world for nothing.
I'm just happy they're making a move in the right direction.
David
quote:TMCC was introduced in 1995, IIRC. 1995 was 17 years ago.
Patents last 17 years. The basic TMCC patents are a NON ISSUE.
The ACL GP30's where delivered in the Black with yellow striping paint scheme.
Only the E3,E6-E7-E8,GP7-GP9,FT,F2,F3,F-7,FP-7 and F9's where delivered in the Purple and Silver scheme.
awesome news, im in for one
Originally Posted by Chris Lonero:
Originally Posted by Dave Allen:
So what is the 16 bit sound system? Engine sounds and all, or a revised Trueblast, with just whistle and bell?
No cab chatter but that is OK with me. Just the diesel rev and a decent sounding bell and horn is a major step foward IMO. Well done WBB and thank you!
Ditto
Where did you place an order for a B&M F3, Chris. It is the must have loco for me this year. Glad to see that Bachmann is on the stick and offering some new paint schemes. Not just the same old thing.
Does anyone know what paint scheme the B&M F-3s will use? Maroon or McGinnis?
Thanks
LIRR Steamer,
Blue McGinnis
Sunrise.
Originally Posted by BARailroad:
Where did you place an order for a B&M F3, Chris. It is the must have loco for me this year. Glad to see that Bachmann is on the stick and offering some new paint schemes. Not just the same old thing.
I ordered mine from Charles Ro.
It looks like wholesaletrains.com has street prices posted @ $169.99 on the GP30's.
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/OProducts2.asp?Scale=O&Item=WLMS30GP
They seem to be in-line with the rest of the WBB line-up.
However, nothing is mentioned of the new sound system (only TBII).
