John, glad your feeling better. I do much better looking at your pictures than layout diagrams. Much easier to visualize for me as far as elevations and such. Your bascule bridge I’m guessing is ground zero and level with the yard area. The MTH bridge is raised on piers and the reason for using the bascule bridge in the foreground now makes sense. Ships coming under the elevated bridge need the same clearance so the bridge has to rise.
I think your plan is fine as is. Most layouts have some restrictions as to what you can run. Not always a bad thing to having to limit your purchases.
John, I am also glad your feeling better! If it was me I would just take one of your longest cars and then one of your tallest cars and just had roll them into the bascule bridge to check for clearance. The only concern I would have is the front swing from a steam engine! I found a problem with my UP 4-8-4 where one way the front would hit a support beam and then the other direction the rear of the cab would drag on the beam and would never be able to back it up in that section!
Either way take it easy and enjoy what your doing, just like your 3D track spacers, it will come to you and I know it will be great!
@Dave_C posted:John, glad your feeling better. I do much better looking at your pictures than layout diagrams. Much easier to visualize for me as far as elevations and such. Your bascule bridge I’m guessing is ground zero and level with the yard area. The MTH bridge is raised on piers and the reason for using the bascule bridge in the foreground now makes sense. Ships coming under the elevated bridge need the same clearance so the bridge has to rise.
I think your plan is fine as is. Most layouts have some restrictions as to what you can run. Not always a bad thing to having to limit your purchases.
Hi Dave,
Yes your observations are correct as shown and I agree on your suggested limitations, the trains will have to navigate the bridge as is for starters. (maybe permanently) You are correct about the stationary bridge being higher, although I plan on having it a bit lower than shown when the section gets cutout for the river. It will be higher than ground zero (bascule bridge) but not full height to accommodate a lower grade going to yard. And if I find one more place to access the yard then for myself this is a non issue. Just need to know engines and cars longer/higher or wider than the bridge need to use a different route.
Thanks John
@mike g. posted:John, I am also glad your feeling better! If it was me I would just take one of your longest cars and then one of your tallest cars and just had roll them into the bascule bridge to check for clearance. The only concern I would have is the front swing from a steam engine! I found a problem with my UP 4-8-4 where one way the front would hit a support beam and then the other direction the rear of the cab would drag on the beam and would never be able to back it up in that section!
Either way take it easy and enjoy what your doing, just like your 3D track spacers, it will come to you and I know it will be great!
Thanks All for all the get well wishes!
Mike, your suggestion is great, however that means unpacking many boxes (which should have been done by now lol ) And inventorying what I actually have for cars, engines and see what fits and what doesn't fit. I have been pretty old school and I'll guess 90% of cars are postwar, four passenger car set silver dawn is one I recall that are 18" long I believe are the longest cars I have for sure. There is one set I got on a auction that has a larger NYC engine and heavyweight cars. If they don't make it they can be sold. Great idea to check things out and see what the immediate problem or lack thereof, that need to be handled.
Covid update: Still test positive but feeling better, hoping for a negative test tonight!
Thanks John
Today I will start to finalize (at least I hope) the main street pavers. First prints were to see if the idea was a good or bad one. Then, since the commander (my wife) suggested it, it is now a must have. 
After looking at the street pavers compared to some of the brick buildings the street pavers seemed to be on the large size (not to O scale) Anyone have suggested size of city street pavers? I know growing up in Brooklyn New York I played on what was called cobblestone streets. (rubber balls took wild hops playing stickball also steel skate wheels had difficulties to say the least) LOL I will look to see if there are any dimensions given for these anywhere so I can scale them down to 1:48 Any suggestions are always welcome.
Thanks John
@Aegis21 posted:Today I will start to finalize (at least I hope) the main street pavers. First prints were to see if the idea was a good or bad one. Then, since the commander (my wife) suggested it, it is now a must have.
Thanks John
Hi John, there is a scale chart in the OGR 3D section. I don't know if it will help.
I know when we had to do maintenance on one section of brick road left.in our county the bricks were 2 1/2" thick 3" wide and carried between 5" - 6" long.
John, there are lots of brick streets here in Butler. I live just outside of town, but I do walk with the dog onto some of those streets. Our older daughter lives on the old road that leads into Butler from Pittsburgh which winds down the hill, all brick still, as is The Diamond at the court house. They are all normal sized bricks you would use to build a house. These are all now over 100 years old. I can recall going to Penn Tech in Downtown Pittsburgh, and their street pavers were stone and a little larger than house bricks, but not a lot.
John, I’m glad you’re feeling better. I’ve had Covid twice but, fortunately, they were mild cases and I am fine.
I also grew up in Brooklyn in the 50’s and 60’s ( Midwood High School and Brooklyn College, class of ‘74) I don’t recall anything in that area that had cobblestone streets but they definitely were present in parts of Williamsburg and elsewhere.
Do you remember the electric buses which were powered by centenary in Brooklyn? As I recall, the part of Roebling Street on which they ran had cobblestone streets, but I may be wrong.
I seem to recall that several of the scenery vendors like Vollmer made plastic sheets of stone streets that would be very useful. You could lay down parts of the sheets, cover the rest of the street with whatever you’re using, and create the look of an old cobblestone street which has been paved over but whose pavement has worn away in some areas, exposing the cobblestones of the past.
Rubin
@Mark Boyce posted:John, there are lots of brick streets here in Butler. I live just outside of town, but I do walk with the dog onto some of those streets. Our older daughter lives on the old road that leads into Butler from Pittsburgh which winds down the hill, all brick still, as is The Diamond at the court house. The are all brick, normal sized bricks you would use to build a house. These are all now over 100 years old. I can recall going to Penn Tech in Downtown Pittsburgh, and their street pavers were stone and a little larger than house bricks, but not a lot.
Thanks Mark,
I will be trying to make it as close to large house bricks that my 3D printer will do a good job printing, and looks close to authentic. It is looking like a 3mm x 6mm brick is the most pleasing, although large, not as large as my original 4mm x 8mm. Smaller looks too busy and detracts from the scene ( IMHO ) I'm printing some test pieces to get a better idea of scale and size.
Thanks for the input.
John
@RubinG posted:John, I’m glad you’re feeling better. I’ve had Covid twice but, fortunately, they were mild cases and I am fine.
I also grew up in Brooklyn in the 50’s and 60’s ( Midwood High School and Brooklyn College, class of ‘74) I don’t recall anything in that area that had cobblestone streets but they definitely were present in parts of Williamsburg and elsewhere.
Do you remember the electric buses which were powered by centenary in Brooklyn? As I recall, the part of Roebling Street on which they ran had cobblestone streets, but I may be wrong.
I seem to recall that several of the scenery vendors like Vollmer made plastic sheets of stone streets that would be very useful. You could lay down parts of the sheets, cover the rest of the street with whatever you’re using, and create the look of an old cobblestone street which has been paved over but whose pavement has worn away in some areas, exposing the cobblestones of the past.Rubin
Hi Rubin,
Glad you made it through your covid bouts, mine bout is not a severe case but not really all that mild, especially with the rebound aspect (gets mentally challenging) But I seem to be coming out of it ok. Now I am praying my sweet wife doesn't get it!
Brighter topic, SMALL WORLD lol I did grow up in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn, 676 Grand Street, attended grammar school at St. Mary's Immaculate Conception across from PS18. Then Bishop Laughlin M.H.S. and CCNY for engineering class of '74. I don't remember the electric busses, just the black smoke from the ones that ran on Grand street to middle village. Some of the cobblestone streets were being paved over while I was growing up there, we moved to Queens when I was in 7th grade and took public transportation to finish grammar school in Brooklyn.
Thanks for the idea of using the sheets of stone to simulate cobblestones peaking through the asphalt.
Thanks for the tips and trip down memory lane.
John and Rubin, those trips down memory lane are always the best! I always find it neat when Forum members find that they have a connection from their past, especially childhood.
John, I thought I would mention the brick streets in Butler since we now live in neighboring counties. I went to a rural school in Butler County, and was the country boy in the ‘big city’ going to Penn Tech, graduating in ‘76. They were still running the cream and maroon PCC cars all over downtown and the rest of the city. Lots of the streets still had the stone pavers with lots of tracks for the PCC cars. You had to be careful waiting at corners for the light to change, because the center of those cars would overhang the curbs at the crazy triangular corners mostly on Liberty Avenue, since Downtown Pittsburgh is a triangle.
John,
Not exactly what you are looking for... but, take a look at Ray's (sidehack) Stone Foundation .stl., in the 3D catalog. They are 3.64mm x 6.76mm with a nice depth of field for that granite/cobble look. I thinned the backing down to use as a veneer for the foundation of my engine house.
@Mark Boyce posted:John and Rubin, those trips down memory lane are always the best! I always find it neat when Forum members find that they have a connection from their past, especially childhood.
John, I thought I would mention the brick streets in Butler since we now live in neighboring counties. I went to a rural school in Butler County, and was the country boy in the ‘big city’ going to Penn Tech, graduating in ‘76. They were still running the cream and maroon PCC cars all over downtown and the rest of the city. Lots of the streets still had the stone pavers with lots of tracks for the PCC cars. You had to be careful waiting at corners for the light to change, because the center of those cars would overhang the curbs at the crazy triangular corners mostly on Liberty Avenue, since Downtown Pittsburgh is a triangle.
Hi Mark,
Excellent info on the area to help with my kludge of Pittsburg, Brooklyn and Conn. There will be little overall prototypical cohesion for sure. However it is more about my wife's memories and mine than it is to be a replica of a certain area/period so to speak. It may not be totally to scale, however 3mm x 6mm brickwork seems like it gives a real paver look without distracting too much from the overall scene. I'll cobble together some 3D printed pieces (yes pun intended) to get a final look.
Last night I tested negative for covid (finally) so I am hoping to make some progress with these projects. I still need to finish the layout on the yard side. With Daves' fantastic diagrams on yard switches, I have a good reference to use for that planning. Now if I can only find that fountain of youth, I'd get some energy back!
@Dennis-LaRock posted:John,
Not exactly what you are looking for... but, take a look at Ray's (sidehack) Stone Foundation .stl., in the 3D catalog. They are 3.64mm x 6.76mm with a nice depth of field for that granite/cobble look. I thinned the backing down to use as a veneer for the foundation of my engine house.
Hi Dennis,
Thanks for directing me to Ray's tremendous contributions to the 3D world! His work is great! I will certainly look and use his work for building foundations and all the other items he has generated. This forum not only has tremendous talent, but even more importantly members who truly enjoy helping others in this hobby. I will have to look at all the new items in the 3D area again, so many additions since I have last looked.
Again Thanks Dennis!
John, yours and your wife's memories make an excellent theme for your layout. I had to convert millimeters to inches to get an understanding of you pavers size. 
I still have trouble thinking in metric. 
Yes, that will be a good size for your cobbled cobble stones. 
I'm glad you tested negative. That fountain is as elusive now as it was for Ponce de Leon. Hopefully, you will get energy back soon!
John glad your feeling better and back working on the layout! I think it's a great idea to make things closer to your wife's and your memories!
I have been searching the net and there are many 3D sites with free file downloads.
Thanks Mike for the support, the first area to check out 3d files of model railroads is here OGR
I need to get sometime and review again all the offerrings on this 3d file forum. Extremely talanted members and they give their work freely.
@Mark Boyce posted:John, yours and your wife's memories make an excellent theme for your layout. I had to convert millimeters to inches to get an understanding of you pavers size.
I'm glad you tested negative. That fountain is as elusive now as it was for Ponce de Leon. Hopefully, you will get energy back soon!
Thanks Mark for the feedback, your work on the your hotel and coffee building is outstanding. I hope I will do half as well when and if I get to that point. lol
Does anyone know of a model of the Duquene incline in Pittsburg ???? That maybe a huge scratch project I can work on down the line. Need to find layout space first.
sidemote, energy is coming back slowly, I usually push recovery faster than I should, so this time I am taking it slower than I may need to, I wrooy about my wife getting sick if I relapse again.
John, if you have a FB account, you can see some great photographs of the cobblestone streets at “Remember When: Pennsylvania” “Pittsburgh”. One I saw is the two lane (narrow for two lanes) 4th Avenue, which is where my former employer’s Pgh telecom hub is located. The stones are slightly larger than kiln fired bricks. Yes, 4th Avenue and others are as narrow today as in 1900 when the photographs were taken.
Have been working on everything but the layout. Honey do time out for sure. I am about to attack the backdrops and how to do them... It would seem that they would be last to do, to carry the scenery and roads, rivers, buildings into the horizon. However if I am painting them, all the scenery would be in the way of painting. (my head hurts lol) Getting hog tied again with over thinking, I think..... pun intended
I agree it would be nice to match the backdrop with the scenery, but not practical. Ah well. Don’t think too hard.
@Aegis21 posted:Have been working on everything but the layout. Honey do time out for sure. I am about to attack the backdrops and how to do them... It would seem that they would be last to do, to carry the scenery and roads, rivers, buildings into the horizon. However if I am painting them, all the scenery would be in the way of painting. (my head hurts lol) Getting hog tied again with over thinking, I think..... pun intended
As the renown philosopher Curly once said, “I’m thinkin’ but nuthins happenen”.🤫
@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:As the renown philosopher Curly once said, “I’m thinkin’ but nuthins happenen”.🤫
I just said that to myself a couple days ago! 😄
I stop to think sometimes and forget to start again!
Good point, John. I do that too! No wonder they shoved me out the door at work! 😄
I've been learning how to paint the backdrop and I'm not sure I get all the nuances of perspective. A couple of different views of the same area. I thought the blue sky wasn't bad...
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John, I'm not sure about the nuance either, but you sure nailed it and made it look so real! Great work!
@Aegis21 posted:I've been learning how to paint the backdrop and I'm not sure I get all the nuances of perspective. A couple of different views of the same area. I thought the blue sky wasn't bad...
It looks pretty darn good to me!
@mike g. posted:John, I'm not sure about the nuance either, but you sure nailed it and made it look so real! Great work!
Thanks for the encouragement, I am totally out of my comfort zone.
@charles mcdaniel posted:It looks pretty darn good to me!
Thanks, appreciate the feedback.
@Aegis21 posted:Thanks for the encouragement, I am totally out of my comfort zone.
I know what you mean, I know nothing about doing it, but will try to learn and do my best! Then again most everything looks good for me as long as the trains are running good! 😆
Your Hired. Looks pretty good to me. I started in one area I was re doing. My second effort was more like what I was I was looking for. It’s been so long now I’m sure I forgot how I did it. I’ve watched a few videos and what I’ve pretty much got out of them is. You don’t try to really paint anything with brush strokes. Just dab or stipple the paint.
I can appreciate real photo backdrops that match the theme of the layout. Often times to me they look to good to the eye and grab your attention more so than the actual scenery on the layout. I like your approach. Well Done.
John, I think it looks marvelous! I agree with Dave and Mike. Your backdrop will provide just the right setting for the actual foreground scenery and trains, which are your focal point.
@Aegis21 posted:Thanks for the encouragement, I am totally out of my comfort zone.
That’s what makes it all the better; challenging yourself with something out of your comfort zone. You’re much more daring, and successful, than me. I would never attempt such an undertaking. Congratulations John!
Jay
@mike g. posted:I know what you mean, I know nothing about doing it, but will try to learn and do my best! Then again most everything looks good for me as long as the trains are running good! 😆
Well said!
@Dave_C posted:Your Hired. Looks pretty good to me. I started in one area I was re doing. My second effort was more like what I was I was looking for. It’s been so long now I’m sure I forgot how I did it. I’ve watched a few videos and what I’ve pretty much got out of them is. You don’t try to really paint anything with brush strokes. Just dab or stipple the paint.
I can appreciate real photo backdrops that match the theme of the layout. Often times to me they look to good to the eye and grab your attention more so than the actual scenery on the layout. I like your approach. Well Done.
Thanks, however it is not my approach, this is from the web. Chris Lyons has a five part video that I have been trying to emulate. I still need to learn how to paint conifers and do better fields. But it is a great approach as it allows the railroad to be the focal point.
@Mark Boyce posted:John, I think it looks marvelous! I agree with Dave and Mike. Your backdrop will provide just the right setting for the actual foreground scenery and trains, which are your focal point.
Thanks Mark, your build is certainly inspiring me to move forward and if I take a step back then thats ok too.
@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:That’s what makes it all the better; challenging yourself with something out of your comfort zone. You’re much more daring, and successful, than me. I would never attempt such an undertaking. Congratulations John!
Jay
You say daring my wife says fool hardy LOL
John, Chris Lyons was one of the names I was trying to come up with. I think I’ve watched all his videos. Most of the layouts he visits or operates on all seem to have the same style as far as backdrops. Your rolling hills or fields as well as color choices reminded me of his work.
@Dave_C posted:John, Chris Lyons was one of the names I was trying to come up with. I think I’ve watched all his videos. Most of the layouts he visits or operates on all seem to have the same style as far as backdrops. Your rolling hills or fields as well as color choices reminded me of his work.
Yes I have watched and did my best to emulate his methods. My only difference was my scenes are in the fall so red, orange, brown and yellow were incorporated. I still cannot make a decent conifer. But I will keep trying. Also during this time I am fabricating my trestle using 3d printer. So I can get distracted on purpose and then go back to my failing conifers. lol
I watch anything HO modeler Marty McGurk has on You Tube. He models the fall in Vermont which is kind of where I’m at. His layout update #7 offers a few tips on painting a backdrop. You don’t see him actually paint it. But there’s some good info. along with colors he uses.
@Dave_C posted:I watch anything HO modeler Marty McGurk has on You Tube. He models the fall in Vermont which is kind of where I’m at. His layout update #7 offers a few tips on painting a backdrop. You don’t see him actually paint it. But there’s some good info. along with colors he uses.
Thanks for the valuable info! I will look him up for sure!
This is a crazy hobby for sure. One minute I am learning to paint a backdrop, then 3d designing a trestle and learning how to build a layout. Geeze, then the electronics aspect, scenery, weathering, sculpting, and signalling and many more I haven't mentioned... Here is my best attempt at conifers to date and printed trestle parts. I am liking the green paint on the vertical supports. Let me know what I overlooked and can improve. (there is always improvement possible) Thanks
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John, I think you just named a few of the different aspects of the hobby that hold our interest and we never get bored! 👍🏻
Your conifers look good. They could be a little more full looking, either fuller branches or branches slightly closer together, but they are certainly good as they are. Your backdrop is good.
The trestles look great! Starting with a well done drawing, your printed parts are great!!
Thanks Mark on the good advise on the conifers. They could use the help you recommended. And yes I am never bored LOL
Your trees are looking good, don't be afraid to add a little brown here and there on the branches, lighter on the top and darker as you go down the trunk to the ground... Your background is great. Too much detail, and folks focus on that instead of the trains, structures, details and the theme. We all forget', but many times less is more'.. You are doing very nice work.. Don't forget to have fun doing it'..... 😁 👍
John, if you add a few foreground trees such as Supertrees to the front of the trees you painted along with some bushes. You will have the effect that the tree line extends back. But they will no longer be the first tree you see when viewing. Your looking at a 90 degree angle going from the layout to the backdrop. A few layers of ground cover and bushes will soften the transition and I think you will be pleased as to how it comes out.
@Quarter Gauger 48 posted:Your trees are looking good, don't be afraid to add a little brown here and there on the branches, lighter on the top and darker as you go down the trunk to the ground... Your background is great. Too much detail, and folks focus on that instead of the trains, structures, details and the theme. We all forget', but many times less is more'.. You are doing very nice work.. Don't forget to have fun doing it'..... 😁 👍
The CEO agrees with your suggestion and comments. Thanks for the advise! I struggle with the backdrop, however, overall it is fun to do something I've never thought I could do. Thanks for the encouragement.
@Dave_C posted:John, if you add a few foreground trees such as Supertrees to the front of the trees you painted along with some bushes. You will have the effect that the tree line extends back. But they will no longer be the first tree you see when viewing. Your looking at a 90 degree angle going from the layout to the backdrop. A few layers of ground cover and bushes will soften the transition and I think you will be pleased as to how it comes out.
Great point, I will do the best I can in this area. The track will be elevated in that section, and trees a shrubs might be cramped. The rest of the layout will be lower and conducive to foreground trees a bushes. As I get towards town, the background I hope will become more hills and fields and less mountainous. That should facilitate your suggestions. Thanks for your comments, as it makes me think in overall effect rather than just the localized look.
Catching up on your recent exploits John. Everything is looking good. The backdrop looks great! Channeling your inner Bob Ross...
I agree with the others that some browns and yellows added to the trees will help. Pine's will yellow and thin out toward the bottom naturally since they don't get as much sunlight as the top of the tree. Adding 3 dimensional trees and shrubs will help too. OK to wait until the track and other scenery is installed before deciding what to add.
The bridge piers are nice too. Only thing that jumped out to me was that the rivets look a little too big.
Keep up the good work.
Bob
John,
I like your backdrops, very Impressionist. They set the tone for the display of both foreground scenery and the trains which is what most of us want to show off. And Bob Ross would be pleased with your "happy little clouds". Thanks for the inspiration. Earl
Good morning John, I really like your back drop and the details your putting into it. I think your on the right track with waiting till you get some track in that area before you start adding more trees and shrubs. As for the bridge piers I think they look great and hope you will be adding them to the 3D page on the forum. I am just wondering if your also going to be doing curved sections of raised bridge piers?
No matter what you do just have fun and just to be safe keep checking in with the CEO for her thoughts! LOL
@RSJB18 posted:Catching up on your recent exploits John. Everything is looking good. The backdrop looks great! Channeling your inner Bob Ross...
I agree with the others that some browns and yellows added to the trees will help. Pine's will yellow and thin out toward the bottom naturally since they don't get as much sunlight as the top of the tree. Adding 3 dimensional trees and shrubs will help too. OK to wait until the track and other scenery is installed before deciding what to add.
The bridge piers are nice too. Only thing that jumped out to me was that the rivets look a little too big.Keep up the good work.
Bob
Bob,
Thanks for the input on everything. The rivets were sized with printer capabilities taken into account. I use a PLA printer and for the size of the main pieces (some around 12 inches) the pla was the way to go, however I give up some fine detail. I didn't try smaller ones and maybe I can get away with a properly scaled rivet.
Again Thanks for your interest and help
@Conductor Earl posted:John,
I like your backdrops, very Impressionist. They set the tone for the display of both foreground scenery and the trains which is what most of us want to show off. And Bob Ross would be pleased with your "happy little clouds". Thanks for the inspiration. Earl
Thanks for the comments, I have watched a lot of Bob Ross videos, even one his son did. He always brought a light hearted kindness to everything he did.
@mike g. posted:Good morning John, I really like your back drop and the details your putting into it. I think your on the right track with waiting till you get some track in that area before you start adding more trees and shrubs. As for the bridge piers I think they look great and hope you will be adding them to the 3D page on the forum. I am just wondering if your also going to be doing curved sections of raised bridge piers?
No matter what you do just have fun and just to be safe keep checking in with the CEO for her thoughts! LOL
Hi Mike,
Sure looks like you have a new train room and pleanty of fun in front of you! Not sure how useful the bridge piers on the 3D page as they are not too user friendly (not fully parametric designed , I took short cuts! ) , I am working out some "bugs" and could have some rendition available. As for curves... I am also looking at that possibility. I just don't know if I'll have the time to put into that, for my own use. lol And I ALWAYS check with the CEO! Thanks as always
@Aegis21 posted:Hi Mike,
Sure looks like you have a new train room and pleanty of fun in front of you! Not sure how useful the bridge piers on the 3D page as they are not too user friendly (not fully parametric designed , I took short cuts! ) , I am working out some "bugs" and could have some rendition available. As for curves... I am also looking at that possibility. I just don't know if I'll have the time to put into that, for my own use. lol And I ALWAYS check with the CEO!
Morning John, I know it takes alot to come up with plans for 3D prints and folks like you are what make things do able for people like me! I am sure you will get it all worked out to make life easy for you!
I know sometimes its not easy and it all trial and error, but when it all comes together is sometimes a great time and you just sit back and smile!
@mike g. posted:Morning John, I know it takes alot to come up with plans for 3D prints and folks like you are what make things do able for people like me! I am sure you will get it all worked out to make life easy for you!
I know sometimes its not easy and it all trial and error, but when it all comes together is sometimes a great time and you just sit back and smile!
Hi Mike,
The major difficulty is my lack of knowledge using fusion 360 software. I have been learning bits and pieces as I need to, but not having a full grasp of ALL the tools that are available. I will certainly share anything I have done in 3D as a return to ALL the tremendous help I have gotten on this forum. I am trying to figure out how to easily adjust the vertical support heights to maintain the proper design grade of the elevated line. I did learn to use the program to take two components and put them together, however somehow I messed up the actual height by 3/4" of an inch! 
that is an issue I didn't see coming. Unfortunately I am also working on the backdrop painting with even less skills than using fusion360... lol So it is learn to paint a tree, then a field, then a hill... you get the picture (pun intended lol) When I get the trestle parts worked out I will certainly share them and anything else that could be useful to someone!
John, I was an art teacher (of teens) for 33 years and can navigate a loaded brush pretty well myself. Having said that, I probably won't be painting my own backdrop and opt for commercial ones instead especially since I am doing an urban/industrial setting. I am TOTOALLY IMPRESSED with your painting skills and the fact that you are a novice at that. Stop doubting yourself; you have skills, man! Seriously, great job. The comments from the group are also on point and should be taken into consideration.
Mikki
Mikki
Hi John, I know what you mean, its been awhile since I used SCARM and I am having a heck of a time with it to the point I had to ask for help again with my future layout!
John, Take Mikki's word for it. Your backdrop painting looks really good!!!
@Aegis21 John, I am slowly going through the Fusion 360 tutorials in order to design a (laser cut) freight house for my layout. That tool is so incredibly powerful, I keep thinking how much it would have affected my engineering design efforts. Just getting a spreadsheet was awesome. Somehow I think one needs to have a much broader engineering knowledge to really use the functionality of the tool. When using it for 3D printed parts, how do you know where to put the supports needed during printing?
I watched a lot of Bob Ross but found I like Jerry Yarnell a touch better. Since he works in acrylics, I find it easier to translate into what I am trying to do. The methods for blending colors and transitioning into different areas is enlightening. Much different than paint-by-numbers as a youngster.
Depending on how much room you have for the backdrop, It can be helpful to compose foam layers to add "depth" and texture. This was just a couple of layers of 1 inch foam board. Never had time to paint the walls. I think this was my favorite section of my old layout. I moved this "mountain" with me to Michigan where it resides on my new layout.
The masonite backdrop below is a light blue grey - just waiting for clouds and perhaps an angry sky.
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Hi guys, you both make scenery look easy! I know it takes a lot of work and you both show that it pays off!
@Mikki posted:John, I was an art teacher (of teens) for 33 years and can navigate a loaded brush pretty well myself. Having said that, I probably won't be painting my own backdrop and opt for commercial ones instead especially since I am doing an urban/industrial setting. I am TOTOALLY IMPRESSED with your painting skills and the fact that you are a novice at that. Stop doubting yourself; you have skills, man! Seriously, great job. The comments from the group are also on point and should be taken into consideration.
Mikki
Mikki I will
Hi Mikki,
Thank you for the encouragement, and kind words. I will continue learning and adding as I go along this path. I did consider a commercial solution, however funding was not available for that option. Although paint isn't that cheap. I am using a good amount of craft paint for the cost consideration.
Again Thanks for your valued input.
john
@mike g. posted:Hi John, I know what you mean, its been awhile since I used SCARM and I am having a heck of a time with it to the point I had to ask for help again with my future layout!
Hi Mike,
It is unfortunate that we learn and un-learn things at the same or for me a faster rate!
LOL
@Mark Boyce posted:John, Take Mikki's word for it. Your backdrop painting looks really good!!!
Thanks Mark for the encouragement. Your build is nothing short of perfection.
@ScoutingDad posted:@Aegis21 John, I am slowly going through the Fusion 360 tutorials in order to design a (laser cut) freight house for my layout. That tool is so incredibly powerful, I keep thinking how much it would have affected my engineering design efforts. Just getting a spreadsheet was awesome. Somehow I think one needs to have a much broader engineering knowledge to really use the functionality of the tool. When using it for 3D printed parts, how do you know where to put the supports needed during printing?
I watched a lot of Bob Ross but found I like Jerry Yarnell a touch better. Since he works in acrylics, I find it easier to translate into what I am trying to do. The methods for blending colors and transitioning into different areas is enlightening. Much different than paint-by-numbers as a youngster.
Depending on how much room you have for the backdrop, It can be helpful to compose foam layers to add "depth" and texture. This was just a couple of layers of 1 inch foam board. Never had time to paint the walls. I think this was my favorite section of my old layout. I moved this "mountain" with me to Michigan where it resides on my new layout.
The masonite backdrop below is a light blue grey - just waiting for clouds and perhaps an angry sky.
Hi Jeff,
I have to second your comment on the power of fusion360 and what it would have been to have that years ago in design work. I use Cura to generate the gcode files which puts the supports where needed. I have done some pieces without supports and they came out ok, but better with supports enabled at 55 or 60 degrees overhang.
I will have to look up Yarnell for sure.
I only have 3 inch clearance from wall to track with one or two sections at 4inches. Your idea of using foam and creating mountains is fantastic for sure! And then you made it come to life to boot! Wow, now that is not only innovative, but beautifully carried out to fruition.
I also love your portals and stone retaining walls.
Great Job!
John, I think yours looks better than my painting, though I was trying to match the style and colors of the original painter that did the backdrop I bought from a forum member. My part is to the right, the original on the left behind the hotel.
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@Mark Boyce posted:John, I think yours looks better than my painting, though I was trying to match the style and colors of the original painter that did the backdrop I bought from a forum member. My part is to the right, the original on the left behind the hotel.
Hi Mark,
Great job of matching both colors and technique! Gives me a good idea of how things will look when scenery is placed in front of the backdrops. btw: Yours looks great!
Here are some update photos, the scenes aren't final as I have foreground to add and some details too.
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Thank you, John! My artist daughter, Heidi, gave me a bunch of craft acrylic colors that were close to the original. She has a massive selection of colors in several mediums, and knows how to mix colors so the first results don’t all turn brown as my mixing would be. 🤪 All I ask is for some direction from her then do it myself.
I like your work, John! Once your layout scenery is in place, it will all blend nicely.
Morning John, I have to say I think you are doing a wonderful job with your painting skills! Way above anything i have done and might be able to do! LOL
@Mark Boyce posted:I like your work, John! Once your layout scenery is in place, it will all blend nicely.
Well kudos to your daughter for lending a hand! You two combined, did a great job !
@mike g. posted:Morning John, I have to say I think you are doing a wonderful job with your painting skills! Way above anything i have done and might be able to do! LOL
Like Chris Lyons said, anyone can do this, even an engineer... lol btw I uploaded the trestle files on the 3d print file area. I hope I did it correctly, and someone can use them as is... if not hoping I get some time to make these scalable for clearances. Right now the clearance underneath is 5.5 inches I suppose someone can print a cement pillar to raise the support if needed. Not sure when they will show up on this site. This is for dual tracks spaced 4.5 ctc center to center
Thats great news John, I will give it a look so I know what I am looking for when I get a 3D printer!
@mike g. posted:Thats great news John, I will give it a look so I know what I am looking for when I get a 3D printer!
Hi Mike
Dennis said it was approved but someone is on vacation and it has to wait until they return in order for them to post it
Until we get it up... nicely detailed ...and, it printed without issue.
Very, Very Nice Work, John !@!@!
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@Dennis-LaRock posted:Until we get it up... nicely detailed ...and, it printed without issue.
Very, Very Nice Work, John !@!@!
Dennis looks great! Sure is nice that folks like John add to the 3D print files! Thank you both so much!
Hi All, Looking for HELP on closing off the section of layout wall between the train room and layout room with including two access panels, one 26" wide and the other 30" wide. Here is a picture of the area. I have only one fish tank on that wall at present time, and would like to keep it in that area if possible. I can build a plaster wall in there, however hiding the seams for the access panels seems to pose a challenge. I considered Masonite and even a drop fabric with a background on it . (if there is such a thing?) I thought I saw somewhere, Masonite panels that were removable for access... I can't find that post, i'm not sure it was on this site LOL
Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks in Advance John
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John, I am considering the same thing for a corner of my layout which needs access from time to time so needs to be movable. Two options as I see it, are make a frame and attach the thin masonite (1/8 ") to it. Or make a frame and stretch photo background paper to the frame. The stuff is 54 inches wide and long. Comes in all kinds of colors and patterns and not too expensive. I was going to use it horizontally. They also make polyester photo curtains. You can also hang any of these panels from the ceiling with light duty chain so its easy to take down when necessary.
On my permanent portion I went with the thin masonite and painted it a light grey/blue. I would not necessarily worry about the seam - kind of depends on what you are looking for as to finish on the background.
I got rid of my fish tanks, my last was a 55 gallon fresh water tank, fully planted. I used to raise fish in high school. I found I would be interested in them for 4 or 5 years and then lose interest for another 5 years and then get back in. At least with trains nothing is living and needs constant attention. I think I am done this time around - unless I hired a guy to install and maintain a salt water aquarium - in the next house - this one does not have the space.
@Aegis21 posted:Hi All, Looking for HELP on closing off the section of layout wall between the train room and layout room with including two access panels, one 26" wide and the other 30" wide. Here is a picture of the area. I have only one fish tank on that wall at present time, and would like to keep it in that area if possible. I can build a plaster wall in there, however hiding the seams for the access panels seems to pose a challenge. I considered Masonite and even a drop fabric with a background on it . (if there is such a thing?) I thought I saw somewhere, Masonite panels that were removable for access... I can't find that post, i'm not sure it was on this site LOL
Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks in Advance John
John- Are you looking to create 1- a visual break between the layout and the rest of the room, or 2- a full height divider?
For option 1- a 24" high frame with the appropriate printed backdrop would work.
Option 2- almost anything would do. I'd stay away from any kind of permanent frame/ drywall construction.
Bob
@ScoutingDad posted:John, I am considering the same thing for a corner of my layout which needs access from time to time so needs to be movable. Two options as I see it, are make a frame and attach the thin masonite (1/8 ") to it. Or make a frame and stretch photo background paper to the frame. The stuff is 54 inches wide and long. Comes in all kinds of colors and patterns and not too expensive. I was going to use it horizontally. They also make polyester photo curtains. You can also hang any of these panels from the ceiling with light duty chain so its easy to take down when necessary.
On my permanent portion I went with the thin masonite and painted it a light grey/blue. I would not necessarily worry about the seam - kind of depends on what you are looking for as to finish on the background.
I got rid of my fish tanks, my last was a 55 gallon fresh water tank, fully planted. I used to raise fish in high school. I found I would be interested in them for 4 or 5 years and then lose interest for another 5 years and then get back in. At least with trains nothing is living and needs constant attention. I think I am done this time around - unless I hired a guy to install and maintain a salt water aquarium - in the next house - this one does not have the space.
Hi Jeff, First your layout is fantastic, GREAT Job! Love the camera mounted to the engine view. What did you use?
Thanks for your advice, about not worrying about a seam (my CEO said the same), and I am leaning towards a hybird of photo backdrop and wall. Photo backdrop for access and wall for some noise deadening (area is below bedrooms) I do like the photo paper idea also. Hmmm more options makes it more difficult to decide. LOL
As for fish, I have had fish tanks since I can remember(over 60 years) , my Dad raised guppies which I still have the blood line continuing. I have scaled down and do not breed per se, just enjoy the tranquillity of the fish tanks. Not too much to take care of, with live plants I do a 25% water change every two weeks which I siphon the gravel and leave the good bacteria to supply CO2 and nutrients. No filters or aerators needed, only heaters and led lights. And the enjoyment of that hobby.
@RSJB18 posted:John- Are you looking to create 1- a visual break between the layout and the rest of the room, or 2- a full height divider?
For option 1- a 24" high frame with the appropriate printed backdrop would work.
Option 2- almost anything would do. I'd stay away from any kind of permanent frame/ drywall construction.Bob
Hi Bob, First question is why would you stay away from a permanent frame/drywall? I am leaning towards a full height divider, but the access panels are puzzling to do. I guess I am looking for the same backdrop to continue around the layout and All other area's are a smooth wall without seams. As my wife says, I am probably worrying for nothing. In that area I will have elevated tracks and a coal mining scene. Most likely the elevated section will be a platform 7" high for trains to pass below, through tunnels. I hope I explained this correctly.
Again Thanks for the advice.
John
@Aegis21 posted:Hi Bob, First question is why would you stay away from a permanent frame/drywall? I am leaning towards a full height divider, but the access panels are puzzling to do. I guess I am looking for the same backdrop to continue around the layout and All other area's are a smooth wall without seams. As my wife says, I am probably worrying for nothing. In that area I will have elevated tracks and a coal mining scene. Most likely the elevated section will be a platform 7" high for trains to pass below, through tunnels. I hope I explained this correctly.
Again Thanks for the advice.
John
I miss understood you John. But I'm still not sure what your concerns are relating to the access panels?????
If the wall is separating the two spaces, and you can walk behind it, what do you need the access panels for?
I'm confused........
@RSJB18 posted:I miss understood you John. But I'm still not sure what your concerns are relating to the access panels?????
If the wall is separating the two spaces, and you can walk behind it, what do you need the access panels for?
I'm confused........
Well Bob, you exposed my super power, the ability to take the simplest things and confuse and complicate it beyond recognition! lol The area is where my fish tanks/ water tanks/ water softener resides which I want to "hide" from the train side of the room. So if I had built a wall as originally planned, that would have hidden the water room from the train room. Now on the train side the layout is 111" long (the width of the wall and 48" deep. Which is beyond my reach and this is where access panels come into play. Here is a cleaner picture of how it looked yesterday. This morning I moved the fish tank on the left side of the pic back away from the layout around 10" to be able to work on what is decided. 
So that is what I am working with at the moment. The right side of this area will be two levels, one level at the current height and another about 6-7 inches higher with trains running underneath the top layer. So I will need access to the tunnel area from the back also... Hope this clears it up a bit, again I know my explainations are not the easiest to follow. Thanks John
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@Aegis21 posted:Well Bob, you exposed my super power, the ability to take the simplest things and confuse and complicate it beyond recognition!
So that is what I am working with at the moment. The right side of this area will be two levels, one level at the current height and another about 6-7 inches higher with trains running underneath the top layer. So I will need access to the tunnel area from the back also... Hope this clears it up a bit, again I know my explainations are not the easiest to follow. Thanks John
Ok now I get it.
I'd build the wall and make the access panels as planned, but secure them from behind (water room side).
When you install the backdrop, just slice it on the seams of the panels. You might be able to hide them from the front when the scenery goes in.
Not perfect but we all make compromises with our layouts.
Bob
I hadn't commented because I didn't get it either. I agree, I would build the wall as Bob suggested. I don't see any problem slicing the backdrop. I have two windows in the way of my backdrop which I don't want to cover permanently. Someone suggested quite a while ago that I paint pull out panels to match my backdrop, and put them in place when photographing. That's a good idea on the "someday; maybe" list. I would have to have seams and some kind of handles that would show if someone looked carefully. Quite frankly, I'll never get that project done in this house. However, you are in the position to do yours soon.
Bob, Jeff and Mark, Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. My wife made a command decision (since I couldn't lol) And ordered a Photo backdrop that is 10 feet x 6.5 feet and goes with the existing mountainous terrain. Since the layout is only 53" from the ceiling, at least 25" from the bottom will be cut off. This allows the greatest access and is the least expensive option (under 40$ ) 
. Here is a pic of the backdrop... I'm hoping the cutoff will be before the lake, if not, we think it will still look good.
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I’m still a little confused. The last picture helps. But here goes. As you enter my train room from the stairs. You take an immediate left and walk a ways around the layout down about a 2 ft. wide aisle to another wider aisle to run trains. When we moved in the wall was studded but unfinished. I added some shelving for trains on to it. After about 25 years looking at it I wanted a finished wall. The layout is a walkaround but the main aisle is on the other side of the layout.
I painted the wall a sky blue. Then painted mountains right to the floor for an off in the distance look. From where the layout is viewed most often or even photographed. You never see the aisle. The layout sort of blends in to the painted wall. The layouts benchwork is about 42”s high.
The contractor who finished the wall insisted on putting an access panel in. The pipe to the septic runs across the wall. In it there was an access plug. If you looked close at the plug. It was cross threaded in and looks like something you didn’t want to deal with. Well he won out and the metal panel went in. You can see most of it in the middle of the picture. It has a cloud painted on it. To be honest. It’s really not noticeable.
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John, that's a beautiful backdrop? Why not cut off some of the sky at the top if the roughly 25% included part of the lake. It would make the mountains look higher as well.
Dave, I agree, the panel is hardly noticeable. If you are running trains or doing something else, you probably never notice it at all. Well done.
John, wait and see before you start hacking away at the photo print. You could easily do something like @dave c. The backdrop does not have to touch the layout. Play with it for a while and then make a decision or rather have the CEO make the call ; ) Jeff
You could also fold some of the image over a hangar bar and adjust the sky up or down as necessary.
@Dave_C posted:I’m still a little confused. The last picture helps. But here goes. As you enter my train room from the stairs. You take an immediate left and walk a ways around the layout down about a 2 ft. wide aisle to another wider aisle to run trains. When we moved in the wall was studded but unfinished. I added some shelving for trains on to it. After about 25 years looking at it I wanted a finished wall. The layout is a walkaround but the main aisle is on the other side of the layout.
I painted the wall a sky blue. Then painted mountains right to the floor for an off in the distance look. From where the layout is viewed most often or even photographed. You never see the aisle. The layout sort of blends in to the painted wall. The layouts benchwork is about 42”s high.
The contractor who finished the wall insisted on putting an access panel in. The pipe to the septic runs across the wall. In it there was an access plug. If you looked close at the plug. It was cross threaded in and looks like something you didn’t want to deal with. Well he won out and the metal panel went in. You can see most of it in the middle of the picture. It has a cloud painted on it. To be honest. It’s really not noticeable.
That came out fantastic and if you didn't mention the panel I would have not noticed it at all. Great job and a good example! Thanks!
@Mark Boyce posted:John, that's a beautiful backdrop? Why not cut off some of the sky at the top if the roughly 25% included part of the lake. It would make the mountains look higher as well.
Dave, I agree, the panel is hardly noticeable. If you are running trains or doing something else, you probably never notice it at all. Well done.
Yes, I will have the flexibility of positioning however the CEO thinks best. Thanks for the recommendation, it does help to different perspectives and opens up possibilites.
Thanks
@ScoutingDad posted:John, wait and see before you start hacking away at the photo print. You could easily do something like @dave c. The backdrop does not have to touch the layout. Play with it for a while and then make a decision or rather have the CEO make the call ; ) Jeff
You could also fold some of the image over a hangar bar and adjust the sky up or down as necessary.
Hi Jeff,
Yes, looking and moving things around is better than cutting, I think Mark was thinking the same, just used cutting instead of positioning. Positioning it higher will cut off the sky and give more mountain height etc.
The backdrop is larger than the area that it will fill. Backdrop is 120" wide (wall is 111" Wide) Ceiling to floor the backdrop is 78" the layout to ceiling is at most 53" So Positioning the backdrop in the area has a little wiggle room left to right and a lot up and down. Backdrop is not in USA stock so it will be a month for arrival. I'll paint around it as the issue of what to do, maybe put to rest. The CEO has the final word on this project.
Thanks for everyone's great comments and all the help everyone, so freely gives!
John, you could just let the backdrop hang down over the whole wall too. 🤷♂️
John, I know I am late. But I agree with Mark and why not just let it hang below the layout? The only reason I can see for cutting it is if you can use the lower half somewhere else on the layout!
@mike g. posted:John, I know I am late. But I agree with Mark and why not just let it hang below the layout? The only reason I can see for cutting it is if you can use the lower half somewhere else on the layout!
I am always late, sometimes out to lunch to boot. Great point on using anything that is cut and in the meantime just let it hang below the layout. Thanks for everyone's help! I am delinquent from the site for some family issues and trying my best to continue on the layout. Things are better now, so hopefully I will be able to post something other than pleading for help. Again thanks Mike and everyone else!
Well I am finally getting the homosote cut and placed on the layout, giving it a coat of tan paint. I hesitate to secure it to the plywood top, as I am afraid, one it will transmit sound which defeats the purpose, two it may have to come up as I do scenery. I am inclined to just let it lay on top without glue or screwing it down. Any thoughts??? Also, getting to the point of laying track down and I'm chicken to start cookie cutting the road bed. One, it will be difficult to change things around if I have made huge mistakes in layout for operations. Two, ignorance on doing this with plywood and homosote sandwich.
You can screw the Homasote to the plywood with no sound issues. Your track should just be secured into the Homasote. Don't install track screws that would go in to the plywood. That would cause sound transmission.
