Benchwork - Wiring - adding elevations

Mine has been in place for 35 years just screwed in place. On the mainline there is cork roadbed. The only issue I’ve had is in a couple of spots is where I assume the butt joints are in the homesote. I see cracks running across my ballast and ground cover in spots.  I’m guessing from contraction and expansion right at the joint. Maybe should have used flexible black caulk just on the joint ends. Not even sure that would have helped.

Homesote can be cut with a utility knife. One benefit of not gluing it down. If you build a kit that features a lot of scenic details around it for an area that has homesote over plywood. You can build it like a diorama on 1/2 plywood at the workbench. Then excavate the homesote and drop it in place. Then just scenic around it to blend it in.

I did not screw or glue it to the plywood and did not paint or seal it (mine is 'faced' i.e., water resistant on all sides).  It has not shifted, warped or otherwise moved.  The weight of the track, switches (which are only screwed  into the it and not the plywood) trains, buildings, accessories have kept it in place.   The climatically controlled environment indubitably assists in keeping things true as well.  I have made changes to the layout over the years and being able to pull it up and reshape it or place new sections in has worked well for me.

@Dave_C posted:

Homesote can be cut with a utility knife. One benefit of not gluing it down. If you build a kit that features a lot of scenic details around it for an area that has homesote over plywood. You can build it like a diorama on 1/2 plywood at the workbench. Then excavate the homesote and drop it in place. Then just scenic around it to blend it in.

You can do pretty much the same with extruded foam board. When I repurposed my old test layout (nee around-the-tree sectional) to start an animation showcase, I topped it with a sheet of half-inch foam board, lightly glued down with squiggles of foam adhesive, covered it with paper-backed grass matting, then cut down through the foam board to create a recess into which the thick base of some of the animation could drop in. Here's a pic of the renovations in progress:

@NJCJOE posted:

You can screw the Homasote to the plywood with no sound issues. Your track should just be secured into the Homasote. Don't install track screws that would go in to the plywood. That would cause sound transmission.

Sounds like (no pun intended) that works, makes sense for sure.

@Dave_C posted:

Mine has been in place for 35 years just screwed in place. On the mainline there is cork roadbed. The only issue I’ve had is in a couple of spots is where I assume the butt joints are in the homesote. I see cracks running across my ballast and ground cover in spots.  I’m guessing from contraction and expansion right at the joint. Maybe should have used flexible black caulk just on the joint ends. Not even sure that would have helped.

Homesote can be cut with a utility knife. One benefit of not gluing it down. If you build a kit that features a lot of scenic details around it for an area that has homesote over plywood. You can build it like a diorama on 1/2 plywood at the workbench. Then excavate the homesote and drop it in place. Then just scenic around it to blend it in.

I was wondering what would be good to "fill in" the joints between pieces. flexible caulk might be the answer, otherwise I thought joint compound "Yuk" ( hate sanding is smooth)may work. Also like building separate diaromas and cutting the homosote to accommodate the finished product.

@Aegis21 posted:

I was wondering what would be good to "fill in" the joints between pieces. flexible caulk might be the answer, otherwise I thought joint compound "Yuk" ( hate sanding is smooth)may work.

I used drywall joint compound and spread it as smoothly as possible with the widest knife I could use.  I did almost no sanding; since it will be covered by scenery (eventually, and theoretically), it doesn't need to be perfectly smooth - just avoid major bumps.  Homasote isn't perfectly smooth anyway.

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

I did not screw or glue it to the plywood and did not paint or seal it (mine is 'faced' i.e., water resistant on all sides).  It has not shifted, warped or otherwise moved.  The weight of the track, switches (which are only screwed  into the it and not the plywood) trains, buildings, accessories have kept it in place.   The climatically controlled environment indubitably assists in keeping things true as well.  I have made changes to the layout over the years and being able to pull it up and reshape it or place new sections in has worked well for me.

I have to admit since this layout is in our basement with de-humidification in summer and central humidifier for winter I will seriously consider leaving it float. Or maybe securing the corners so my clumsiness doesn't mess it all up! LOL

@Steve Tyler posted:

You can do pretty much the same with extruded foam board. When I repurposed my old test layout (nee around-the-tree sectional) to start an animation showcase, I topped it with a sheet of half-inch foam board, lightly glued down with squiggles of foam adhesive, covered it with paper-backed grass matting, then cut down through the foam board to create a recess into which the thick base of some of the animation could drop in. Here's a pic of the renovations in progress:

Pictures are worth a thousand words, especially when I am trying to understand some one's vision or idea.

Thanks

@Aegis21 posted:

I have to admit since this layout is in our basement with de-humidification in summer and central humidifier for winter I will seriously consider leaving it float. Or maybe securing the corners so my clumsiness doesn't mess it all up! LOL

I screwed mine down to maintain flatness.  I'd be concerned about homasote getting too wavy if it's not screwed down at least every foot or so.

I screwed mine down as well and didn’t use any glue or adhesive.  It seems fine that way.

I believe I have seen where folks have used every possible way of fastening it and the track down, painted or unpainted, or letting it float.  As long as it is in a dehumidified room, everyone has said what they did works.  

@Mallard4468 posted:

I screwed mine down to maintain flatness.  I'd be concerned about homasote getting too wavy if it's not screwed down at least every foot or so.

I have several pieces down on the plywood and see what you are concerned about. I will let them "rest" and hopefully they will flatten, if not, then the screw gun comes out.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I screwed mine down as well and didn’t use any glue or adhesive.  It seems fine that way.

I believe I have seen where folks have used every possible way of fastening it and the track down, painted or unpainted, or letting it float.  As long as it is in a dehumidified room, everyone has said what they did works.  

Hi Mark,

I shy away from gluing down anything since I have a great propensity to screw up! pun intended... lol  So I will go with the screw or float method, depending how the homosote reacts to it's present enviroment.

Thanks

John, I have used glue very sparingly on this layout.  I have been glad I did several times so far.

Hi John,

I am glad I went back to read a lot of what's going on! I now live in a state that the humidity is crazy and will be building my layout in a shop area that right now has no heat or AC! I hope to fix that before winter! LOL But I now know I will have to get maybe a small dehumidifier for the area!

I like the idea of dropping in something built on a separate bench. It will certainly make it easier to construct, particularly any finer detail.  My only concern has to do with uniform thickness of materials.  I ran into this when recently expanding my 3 yr old layout.  3/4" plywood I bought 3 yrs ago is thicker than the sheets sold today as 3/4".  In addition, 1" foam board has shrunk in thickness in just 1 year. The difference isn't much yet enough to cause a tiny step. Particularly annoying because I was adding a turn table and roundhouse.  I had to deal with the height difference between the existing track transitioning to the turntable over a very short distance.  Getting that right was a conundrum. 

@mike g. posted:

Hi John,

I am glad I went back to read a lot of what's going on! I now live in a state that the humidity is crazy and will be building my layout in a shop area that right now has no heat or AC! I hope to fix that before winter! LOL But I now know I will have to get maybe a small dehumidifier for the area!

Yes a dehumidifier would be essential, I thought our basement was dry until I saw the mildew under the steps. A dehumidifier that expels liquid to a floor drain works perfectly

@Het You posted:

I like the idea of dropping in something built on a separate bench. It will certainly make it easier to construct, particularly any finer detail.  My only concern has to do with uniform thickness of materials.  I ran into this when recently expanding my 3 yr old layout.  3/4" plywood I bought 3 yrs ago is thicker than the sheets sold today as 3/4".  In addition, 1" foam board has shrunk in thickness in just 1 year. The difference isn't much yet enough to cause a tiny step. Particularly annoying because I was adding a turn table and roundhouse.  I had to deal with the height difference between the existing track transitioning to the turntable over a very short distance.  Getting that right was a conundrum.

I unfortunately have come across this issue with two different purchases of homosote. A small difference in thickness makes life difficult for sure!!!

Sorry I’ve been out of touch for a bit, but some travel, mild bout of Covid, some strained muscles and a pulsating nerve all interfered. But I really feel your pain, Aegis21. I built my L girder benchwork using a combination of 40 year old true 1x 4’s and whole array of newer ones whose dimensions vary from 3 1/2 to 3 5/8 to 3.75 and true 4. Its making me crazy as I try to substitute whatever I have to restore uniformity (as my nerves spasm!)

on the good news side, I’m eagerly awaiting a 39” long stone viaduct done by Spencer 3D via 3D printing. Matt at Spenser seems seems to be a really good and responsive vendor. I’ll post pics in the next couple of weeks.
Mark, you are truly a role model and a terrific modeler. Thanks for always sharing and teaching.

well, it looks like the Lionel Base 3 is going to be here soon. Since my tiu etc are over 20 years old, I need to buy something, but first gen complex electronics are never a good idea. After reading the manual, it also so ****ed complicated. I hope we’ll hear from people once they start using this thing. Have any of the group bought/ used one yet?

Rubin

@RubinG posted:

Sorry I’ve been out of touch for a bit, but some travel, mild bout of Covid, some strained muscles and a pulsating nerve all interfered. But I really feel your pain, Aegis21. I built my L girder benchwork using a combination of 40 year old true 1x 4’s and whole array of newer ones whose dimensions vary from 3 1/2 to 3 5/8 to 3.75 and true 4. Its making me crazy as I try to substitute whatever I have to restore uniformity (as my nerves spasm!)

on the good news side, I’m eagerly awaiting a 39” long stone viaduct done by Spencer 3D via 3D printing. Matt at Spenser seems seems to be a really good and responsive vendor. I’ll post pics in the next couple of weeks.
Mark, you are truly a role model and a terrific modeler. Thanks for always sharing and teaching.

well, it looks like the Lionel Base 3 is going to be here soon. Since my tiu etc are over 20 years old, I need to buy something, but first gen complex electronics are never a good idea. After reading the manual, it also so ****ed complicated. I hope we’ll hear from people once they start using this thing. Have any of the group bought/ used one yet?

Rubin

You sound like it has been rough lately, I hope you are still doing better and are awaiting the stone viaduct. That sounds impressive for sure, can't wait to see it!

I agree on the first generation of anything tech wise is usually accompanied buy some growing pains for sure. I haven't looked at the new Lionel Base 3 at all. You said your TIU is old, is the Lionel able to run both Lionel and MTH? Sorry for my blatant display of ignorance... lol

I haven't been on much since I have been busy with home and the layout. I am actually getting to the home stretch with the backdrop painting adventure. It is definitely not professional, but it will make do and look ok  Also I have been finishing prints of the elevated trestle spur, painting them and weathering those pieces. I am not sure where I saw this technique, so I cannot give credit. My apologies to whom ever made the video that I totally copied. I used a rust colored primer, then wet areas I wanted it to look rusty. Sprinkled kosher salt on and lightly sprayed that with a gray/silverish hammer paint. Let dry and then gave another couple of light coats with drying in between. So far it has been successful and gives the look I was trying to achieve. Not sure if I should try to add more weathering, I'll take some pics and post.

Here are a couple of pics of the backdrop progress.

John, I think it looks better than okay.  It looks looks very professional. Reminds me of the ones I’ve seen Chris Lyon’s do on his channel.  Don’t forget you have a RR with scenic elements that are placed in front of it. Don’t judge it as standalone artwork.

John, I think the backdrop looks great!  Very nicely done!

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, I think the backdrop looks great!  Very nicely done!

Thanks Mark, You are a true craftsman, your railroad is my envy.

@Dave_C posted:

John, I think it looks better than okay.  It looks looks very professional. Reminds me of the ones I’ve seen Chris Lyon’s do on his channel.  Don’t forget you have a RR with scenic elements that are placed in front of it. Don’t judge it as standalone artwork.

Thanks Dave,

It is definitely a Chris Lyon's inspired (I copied his technique as best I could) technique for sure. My CEO had a lot of say in colors and where to place trees etc. She was a HUGE help and deserves lots of credit.

Yes, the "real scenery" will hide a lot of the backdrop. The river I made is almost all covered/hidden by the two track bridge. I do see you point for sure. btw I was thinking of putting some lights under the bridge to illuminate the river, anyone have thoughts on that? Is it too unrealistic? Will it look out of place?

Again Thanks for the encouragement

Bravo!!!!! The backdrop looks great John.

For the lights under the bridge- a couple of ideas.
1- Install navigation lights for the marine traffic, while they won't illuminate the river below the bridge, it will add interest.
2- Install lights above the track bed, on the bridge structure. If the bridge has an open structure, it would create some neat patterns on the river below.

Bob

@Aegis21 posted:

Thanks Mark, You are a true craftsman, your railroad is my envy.

Thank you, John!    If you come visit someday, you will see just how crooked and scabbed together everything is!  Although, I must admit it works. 

@RSJB18 posted:

Bravo!!!!! The backdrop looks great John.

For the lights under the bridge- a couple of ideas.
1- Install navigation lights for the marine traffic, while they won't illuminate the river below the bridge, it will add interest.
2- Install lights above the track bed, on the bridge structure. If the bridge has an open structure, it would create some neat patterns on the river below.

Bob

I agree with Bob, his ideas would be subtle but realistic.

John,

your backdrop is gorgeous! What a difference it makes.
As to my TMCC and DCS equipment, I have both as well as the cables which enable me to run both DCS and Lionel engines. My concern is that the electronics on these devices is now over 15 years old and they’ve not been used inn4-5 years. So I’m concerned. And then there’s the plywood headache…
I am feeling better. Thanks!
Now if work wouldn’t keep interfering with train time…

I’m attaching a picture of my new viaduct, which is 39” long. Kudos to Matt from Spencer 3D. He was a pleasure to work with. Just enlarge the photo and you’ll see the detail. Rubin

Hi John I know its been a while since I was here, with the move trying to get setteld, then the trip to see Farmer John's layout and pick up a TT and some cars. Then I get home and some how get covid! I bet it was that dang doctores office! LOL

Anyways your back drops look great! the Famous Bob Ross would be very proud of you!

Rubin that is a great looking viaduct! One reason I want to get a 3D printer!

@Aegis21 posted:

Thanks Dave,

It is definitely a Chris Lyon's inspired (I copied his technique as best I could) technique for sure. My CEO had a lot of say in colors and where to place trees etc. She was a HUGE help and deserves lots of credit.

Yes, the "real scenery" will hide a lot of the backdrop. The river I made is almost all covered/hidden by the two track bridge. I do see you point for sure. btwI was thinking of putting some lights under the bridge to illuminate the river, anyone have thoughts on that? Is it too unrealistic? Will it look out of place?

Again Thanks for the encouragement

Not over a river, but I used some pre-wired 12-18 volt (ac and dc compatible) led strips that I glued in place under a bridge to illuminate a hobo camp underneath. They already have the correct resistors on the strips. I ran the wires through the bridge piers to under the layout in order to hide them from view. Being 18acv compatible, you can connect them directly to track power, if needed.

You should be able to find some on the 'bay in a light range that is not too bright. If they turn out too bright after you get them, you can always paint the lights with Tamiya Clear Orange, which will tone them down substantially. 

@RSJB18 posted:

Bravo!!!!! The backdrop looks great John.

For the lights under the bridge- a couple of ideas.
1- Install navigation lights for the marine traffic, while they won't illuminate the river below the bridge, it will add interest.
2- Install lights above the track bed, on the bridge structure. If the bridge has an open structure, it would create some neat patterns on the river below.

Bob

Thanks Bob,

Great suggestions! I had fished the Conn. river and Long Lsland sound for over thirty years and it did not occur to me to put navigation lights up! Huge thanks!  I also like the idea of the higher lights casting shadows and patterns below.

Again Thanks

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, John!    If you come visit someday, you will see just how crooked and scabbed together everything is!  Although, I must admit it works. 

I agree with Bob, his ideas would be subtle but realistic.

Thanks Mark for validating bob's ideas, they are great ideas. It would be great to stop by and see your master craftsmanship in person. Let me know if you have any free time next week or the week after.

Thanks

John

@RubinG posted:

John,

your backdrop is gorgeous! What a difference it makes.
As to my TMCC and DCS equipment, I have both as well as the cables which enable me to run both DCS and Lionel engines. My concern is that the electronics on these devices is now over 15 years old and they’ve not been used inn4-5 years. So I’m concerned. And then there’s the plywood headache…
I am feeling better. Thanks!
Now if work wouldn’t keep interfering with train time…

I’m attaching a picture of my new viaduct, which is 39” long. Kudos to Matt from Spencer 3D. He was a pleasure to work with. Just enlarge the photo and you’ll see the detail. Rubin

thanks for the compliment, my wife deserves it more than I do, so I will pass it along. I do understand on questioning the reliability of old electronics. Sounds like a good plan to stay ahead of trouble and set backs if you electronics start acting up. Great to hear you are felling better, and don't ya hate distractions like work.

The viaduct looks gorgeous! WOW! What a center focal point for any layout.

This is where the vice of jealousy rears its ugly head . LOL I am Jealous

@mike g. posted:

Hi John I know its been a while since I was here, with the move trying to get setteld, then the trip to see Farmer John's layout and pick up a TT and some cars. Then I get home and some how get covid! I bet it was that dang doctores office! LOL

Anyways your back drops look great! the Famous Bob Ross would be very proud of you!

Rubin that is a great looking viaduct! One reason I want to get a 3D printer!

Thanks Mike for the compliment, Hope and pray you beat covid!  Get better!

@Richie C. posted:

Not over a river, but I used some pre-wired 12-18 volt (ac and dc compatible) led strips that I glued in place under a bridge to illuminate a hobo camp underneath. They already have the correct resistors on the strips. I ran the wires through the bridge piers to under the layout in order to hide them from view. Being 18acv compatible, you can connect them directly to track power, if needed.

You should be able to find some on the 'bay in a light range that is not too bright. If they turn out too bright after you get them, you can always paint the lights with Tamiya Clear Orange, which will tone them down substantially.

Great suggestion and when I get to scenery I will certainly give that a shot, They sound like they worked well for you! I was also looking at having a Hobo area, an area under a bridge sounds like a perfect spot. Now I need another bridge! LOL

@Aegis21 posted:

Great suggestion and when I get to scenery I will certainly give that a shot, They sound like they worked well for you! I was also looking at having a Hobo area, an area under a bridge sounds like a perfect spot. Now I need another bridge! LOL

With lights off ....

@Richie C. posted:

With lights off ....

How did you steal the vision I had in my head?  You even stole the colors to paint the buildings. Geeze, I have to lock up better at night, so my ideas don't escape. Richie, all kidding aside you did a great job as it looks and feels like a Hobo party! Also where did you get those stanchions for the bridge? Did they come with the bridge?

Sorry about that - great minds think alike !

It's just the basic Lionel Truss bridge with flashing red beacon and included rock piers - 6-12772 - available through most vendors. I hid the beacon wires along the inside of the bridge and ran them down the center of one of the rock piers to the underside of the layout and did the same with the LED strips and the other rock pier. That involved drilling several access holes through the metal bridge base. I painted the rock piers a mix of colors and glued some fine turf to the outside in various places. I also used one of the rock piers to bring up and hide a power drop to the track on the bridge, itself. Although not prototypical, I glued the SF badge to the side of the bridge as a finishing touch.

Thanks !

@Richie C. posted:

Sorry about that - great minds think alike !

It's just the basic Lionel Truss bridge with flashing red beacon and included rock piers - 6-12772 - available through most vendors. I hid the beacon wires along the inside of the bridge and ran them down the center of one of the rock piers to the underside of the layout and did the same with the LED strips and the other rock pier. That involved drilling several access holes through the metal bridge base. I painted the rock piers a mix of colors and glued some fine turf to the outside in various places. I also used one of the rock piers to bring up and hide a power drop to the track on the bridge, itself. Although not prototypical, I glued the SF badge to the side of the bridge as a finishing touch.

Thanks !

You did a great job, I can only hope to do something as well as your Hobo area. Hiding wires and painting rock piers all make it so realistic. Again Great Job and thanks for the info on the bridge.

@Richie C. Great looking Hobo camp!

John I am sure you can come up with something that is just as impressive! Heck its a Hobo camp! give them a fire, a place to sleep and maybe a bottle! LOL

@mike g. posted:

@Richie C. Great looking Hobo camp!

John I am sure you can come up with something that is just as impressive! Heck its a Hobo camp! give them a fire, a place to sleep and maybe a bottle! LOL

I totally agree on the bottle! Hobo's always shared.

Sorry for being absent, been working on the lift bridge mounting base. The more I think I know in fusion360, the humbler it makes me. I have a quasi-parametric design for the hinge base of the bridge. It will put the track height at 4 inches. I wanted it to scale height wise and also allow different size "bricks"  to make the walls. I'm  happy with the look, and it appears I can change the height without breaking the design. However the brick work still needs some revising. I started the print, which will take 2 days and 22 hours to finish! OMG! So here is a fusion "pic" of what is printing as I am typing this post. I'll work on a couple of faux bolts to use as screw caps for the six mounting holes that are countersink for mounting the base to the table. I have at least until Sat. before the printer is free to print again... lol

Update - Have finished printing out and testing the hinge support for the lift bridge. Works well and now the task of cutting track rails at proper angle to allow bridge rails and track rails to have as small a gap as is possible. Also have printed and checked the landing pad of the bridge with guide pins. That also aligns well and I am awaiting the track support for that side of bridge to finish printing. (two day 6 hour print time) In the landing/alignment pin area, I have used stainless steel pins and allowed for a spring to be put in alignment pin receptacles allowing them to be wired, to be used as an electronic flag that the bridge is in place or not. Not sure what I'll do just yet but that is down the road.

Now to figure if I use cookie cutter and raise rail elevations or some other supports. If cutting the plywood/homosote base is the preferred direction, then the width of the road bed needs to be determined, and do I use both the plywood and homosote on the grade?  All suggestions are always appreciated. Thanks in advance. john

John, I'm glad the lift bridge hinge supports, etc are working out well.  I see that I read your last post, but forgot to comment that the support drawings look great!  My brain hasn't been working well lately.  I think I have a screw loose. 

I used plywood and Homasote on the grades and throughout except for a couple places I miscalculated and didn't have room to match the track heights up.  There I tapered the Homasote (not fun) to match up and I have one 2-foot stretch where it was easier to lay the track right on the plywood.  I'm not saying what I did was best, just saying that's what I did. 

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, I'm glad the lift bridge hinge supports, etc are working out well.  I see that I read your last post, but forgot to comment that the support drawings look great!  My brain hasn't been working well lately.  I think I have a screw loose. 

I used plywood and Homasote on the grades and throughout except for a couple places I miscalculated and didn't have room to match the track heights up.  There I tapered the Homasote (not fun) to match up and I have one 2-foot stretch where it was easier to lay the track right on the plywood.  I'm not saying what I did was best, just saying that's what I did. 

Good to know you used both where possible and adapting where needed. I can't imagine the snow storm that ensued tapering Homosote! wow wam! what a mess!

John, I’m still trying to recover! 😄

John, those sure look great, I am glad to hear things are moving along in the right direction. I am wondering where did you order or buy the brass pins and receivers for them?

@Richie C. posted:

Not over a river, but I used some pre-wired 12-18 volt (ac and dc compatible) led strips that I glued in place under a bridge to illuminate a hobo camp underneath. They already have the correct resistors on the strips. I ran the wires through the bridge piers to under the layout in order to hide them from view. Being 18acv compatible, you can connect them directly to track power, if needed.

You should be able to find some on the 'bay in a light range that is not too bright. If they turn out too bright after you get them, you can always paint the lights with Tamiya Clear Orange, which will tone them down substantially.

Your backdrop looks wonderful! You did a great job with it. If you're running wires for LED Lights with the resistor and they happen to have a red wire, you can hide your wires by running them through black heat shrink tubing and attaching them to other material with either black silicone sealer, hot glue, or for more permanent drops of super glue. I prefer the black silicone sealer as it's easily removable in the future. You can find rolls of the heat shrink tubing on the Bay, A**zon, or other foreign sites like Ali Express for example, cheaply in all kind of sizes.

@mike g. posted:

John, those sure look great, I am glad to hear things are moving along in the right direction. I am wondering where did you order or buy the brass pins and receivers for them?

Thanks Mike,

It may look great, however functionality fails.   I ran into an issue which I am hoping to resolve by tomorrow. When the bridge lifts on the pinned side there is too much interference between stationary track and bridge track. Going over notes from you and others, I have the suspicion the oversized gap between tracks is from not listening/reading/adhering to  the note of having hinge point located above the track. I am reprinting the piviot base and support arms to have the pivot point above the rails so that clearances will be minimal. So it takes three days to print the base and 5 hours for each support arm. Just finishing up the base as I type and will print the arms, hopefully today. The alignment pins are steel 1/4-28 which I believe I got a while ago. I hope it is ok to post a link, if not I apologize and will remove. "https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EB1TQ2W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1" They do not have any from this seller, however if you need some I ordered 5 thinking I would get 5 and not 5 bags of 5 lol so pm me if you want some. The hinge pins I had laying around for decades. I am a pack rat for sure. The receiver is the base I 3d printed. I hope I understood your question.

Again thanks

@Gary P posted:

Your backdrop looks wonderful! You did a great job with it. If you're running wires for LED Lights with the resistor and they happen to have a red wire, you can hide your wires by running them through black heat shrink tubing and attaching them to other material with either black silicone sealer, hot glue, or for more permanent drops of super glue. I prefer the black silicone sealer as it's easily removable in the future. You can find rolls of the heat shrink tubing on the Bay, A**zon, or other foreign sites like Ali Express for example, cheaply in all kind of sizes.

Thanks, I did the best I could as I was learning as I was going, so to speak. Thanks for the great idea on hiding the red wires! Also I seldom think of silicone sealer for gluing, so I will now keep that in mind. For me it is always better to have things semi-permanent to correct my mistakes without making things worse because they are fused together.

John, yes if the hinges either aren't raised or you use special offset hinges, the rails will bind unless you have a sizable gap, which isn't good for running trains either.

Talk about fusing things together permanently; I have been gluing less and less as time goes on.  Almost everything on my layout is fastened together with screws and no glue because I can't be trusted to do it right even after measuring a dozen times.  I used to think one of my strong points was attention to detail, but unless I have been kidding myself all along, that skill is diminishing as of late! 

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, yes if the hinges either aren't raised or you use special offset hinges, the rails will bind unless you have a sizable gap, which isn't good for running trains either.

Talk about fusing things together permanently; I have been gluing less and less as time goes on.  Almost everything on my layout is fastened together with screws and no glue because I can't be trusted to do it right even after measuring a dozen times.  I used to think one of my strong points was attention to detail, but unless I have been kidding myself all along, that skill is diminishing as of late! 

Yes, I resemble your remarks on missing details more often than I ever did while working.

Hi John, I tried the link you provided, and it just took me to Amazon. Are you able to connect wires to them for power to the bridge? I really love the way the bulkheads look, I sure hope you get it figured out!

@mike g. posted:

Hi John, I tried the link you provided, and it just took me to Amazon. Are you able to connect wires to them for power to the bridge? I really love the way the bulkheads look, I sure hope you get it figured out!

Sorry about the link, they seem to no longer be offered for sale. I snap shot the description to help you find them on the net. I plan on using the wires to these pins just as an indication of down position. I would think there could be too many sparks if track power were run through them, plus they are steel, so not the best conductors. They will be controlling a relay that will handle the power.

Well, I thought the lift bridge project was almost finished... A thought crept into my last remaining brain cell, to check clearances... I needed to have that thought before I began the hinge assy etc. Needless to say, I took the pretty shiny unused NMRA gauge and the hinges will impede any train car, engine or caboose you could imagine. So back to the drawing board. So the two items that SHOULD have been at the top of the design list (track clearance and train clearance)  were ignored, not thought of, live and learn. Only good news is the bridge landing is good to go! New hinge plates to secure to bridge have been redesigned and one is currently printing. I'll get the other tonight completed and will mount and redesign stationary hinge and track supports. I'll have to constantly check clearances as I go laying track. It looks ok on scarm, however I need to touch and feel the layout for  self reassurance.

It’s always something!!  😑

I was the designer and coordinator of the building process for the modular O-gauge layout of CAMRC (Central Arkansas Model Railroad Club) based in Conway AR. We installed a dual-track MTH Lift Bridge across an intentional gap between two modules for aligning them with the bridge during set-up for trouble-free operation (including a circuit designed by a club member that would halt an oncoming train approaching the bridge in the UP position).

We adapted the track hold-in-place screw holes in the crossties of the four approach tracks to permit minor adjustments for alignment using small spacers/washers (up/down and left/right) when setting up the layout for public viewing. Curiously, every set-up was slightly different. probably because of slight irregularities in the concrete floor of the large room. That adjustment feature was very helpful.

The Lift Bridges were installed on a single-level layout without elevations, so maintaining alignment was relatively easy. Bridges are great attention-getters on a layout, and action bridges even more so.  Kids are amazed when a train automatically STOPS before trying to cross a bridge when it's in the UP position.  Then it resumes forward movement when the bridge is DOWN. It's magic ...

Mike M.  LCCA 12394

Hi John, I am not worried about the bridge I know you will get it figured out! You won't need to have an adjustable screw to line the track up every time it goes down! Once I got my bridge set up it was just throw a switch and it would go up and down and would line up every time.

@Mike H Mottler posted:

I was the designer and coordinator of the building process for the modular O-gauge layout of CAMRC (Central Arkansas Model Railroad Club) based in Conway AR. We installed a dual-track MTH Lift Bridge across an intentional gap between two modules for aligning them with the bridge during set-up for trouble-free operation (including a circuit designed by a club member that would halt an oncoming train approaching the bridge in the UP position).

We adapted the track hold-in-place screw holes in the crossties of the four approach tracks to permit minor adjustments for alignment using small spacers/washers (up/down and left/right) when setting up the layout for public viewing. Curiously, every set-up was slightly different. probably because of slight irregularities in the concrete floor of the large room. That adjustment feature was very helpful.

The Lift Bridges were installed on a single-level layout without elevations, so maintaining alignment was relatively easy. Bridges are great attention-getters on a layout, and action bridges even more so.  Kids are amazed when a train automatically STOPS before trying to cross a bridge when it's in the UP position.  Then it resumes forward movement when the bridge is DOWN. It's magic ...

Mike M.  LCCA 12394

Hi Mike,

That is certainly very impressive indeed. I bet the kids weren't only amazed at the trains stopping before an open bridge, sounds like you put in a LOT of magic to that layout!

@mike g. posted:

Hi John, I am not worried about the bridge I know you will get it figured out! You won't need to have an adjustable screw to line the track up every time it goes down! Once I got my bridge set up it was just throw a switch and it would go up and down and would line up every time.

I am hoping my basement floor stays in the same place, if not I will have bigger worries than the track alignment. Speaking of which  I pray everyone on this forum and beyond got through hurricane Helene without out much damage and all are safe.

Mike G.

I think I have the lift bridge figured out. It just took some thoughtful planning instead of rushing a plan. Here are a couple of drawings/video of the setup in theory. I have 216 mm clearance width wise. And the hinge/pivot is definetly above the track. I have to say Fusion 360 is one slick design system!

John, that is really slick!

John, that looks like it should work really well! I hope you will post video of it in action!

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, that is really slick!

Yes fusion 360 is really slick

@mike g. posted:

John, that looks like it should work really well! I hope you will post video of it in action!

I'll post a video when it works, lol it is still printing, so I am hoping it prints it as good as it simulates.

@Aegis21 posted:

I'll post a video when it works, lol it is still printing, so I am hoping it prints it as good as it simulates.

Im sure it will be perfect John!

The blocks are a nice visual.

Typically, the support under the trunnion is made of concrete, like a thick wide column.

The infill between the concrete can be bricks.

Open Up: A blog about Drawbridges: Post 2: The Trunnion Bascule Bridge (westcoastdrawbridges.blogspot.com)

@mike g. posted:

Im sure it will be perfect John!

Thanks Mike, maybe not perfect, but functional with some details.

@AlanRail posted:

The blocks are a nice visual.

Typically, the support under the trunnion is made of concrete, like a thick wide column.

The infill between the concrete can be bricks.

Open Up: A blog about Drawbridges: Post 2: The Trunnion Bascule Bridge (westcoastdrawbridges.blogspot.com)

Thanks Alan, Great article on Bascule bridges. I certainly will use this information when installing / setting up the Bascule bridge at the other end of the layout. I am looking at the Old Lyme Old Saybrook Amtrack bridge over the ct. river to model. My Dad and I, spent many nights fishing under and around the bridge for striped bass.  We always jumped when the train would pass with it's thunderous noise, or at least that is how I remembered it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=...Xb8wgmKpPlf57I5ylLvg

John, that is great you have memories you can apply to your lift bridge!!

On second thought, your model may be concrete and the bricks were added around the concrete after,as a better visual than Grey concrete.

Or the concrete forms had a brick like pattern that created the brick look.

Sorry for the confusion as a former structural engineer i have opinions  😜

@AlanRail posted:

On second thought, your model may be concrete and the bricks were added around the concrete after,as a better visual than Grey concrete.

Or the concrete forms had a brick like pattern that created the brick look.

Sorry for the confusion as a former structural engineer i have opinions  😜

I appreciate the good information for sure! Never be sorry, ALL opinions are welcome and read objectively, that is how I learn and do better. 99% of what I do is with very little knowledge of prototypical design. So it must look like a kludge of stuff randomly put together. It looks that way, because it is that way. LOL So I welcome ALL opinions, suggestions, help of any and all kind.

Sincere Thank you Alan and everyone else on the forum that has helped keep me on the correct path.

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, that is great you have memories you can apply to your lift bridge!!

Yes it is nice to have memories around the layout. Realism suffers, like having the Conneticut RIver near Pennsylvania coal mines. My Uncle worked his entire life in those mines and had stories to beat the band! Now to incorporate Brooklyn New York, my birthplace. LOL

@Aegis21 posted:

Yes it is nice to have memories around the layout. Realism suffers, like having the Conneticut RIver near Pennsylvania coal mines. My Uncle worked his entire life in those mines and had stories to beat the band! Now to incorporate Brooklyn New York, my birthplace. LOL

John, Yours wouldn't be the first to incorporate a variety of places, railroads, and memories from the builder's past.  As is often said on this Forum, it's your railroad!  You are the CEO with the final say.  As you pointed out to Alan @AlanRail all suggestions are welcome.  Alan has been a great influence on many modelers with his background and now his expertise in 3D printing, which you do quite well too.

john

one more thing, concrete or steel usually does not have Sharpe edges, 90 degree corners.

Instead, the edges are chamfered at 45 for concrete;

or in the case of steel filleted, rounded off.

With your 3D modeling program chamfering or filleting is easy to do and print.

It gives the components a more realistic look.

I do this for all my 3D printed pieces.

@AlanRail posted:

john

one more thing, concrete or steel usually does not have Sharpe edges, 90 degree corners.

Instead, the edges are chamfered at 45 for concrete;

or in the case of steel filleted, rounded off.

With your 3D modeling program chamfering or filleting is easy to do and print.

It gives the components a more realistic look.

I do this for all my 3D printed pieces.

Yes Alan,

Chamferring and filet are easy to do in that program. Great tip that I will certainly employ! This is a great example of the tremendous help afforded on this forum! Thank you

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, Yours wouldn't be the first to incorporate a variety of places, railroads, and memories from the builder's past.  As is often said on this Forum, it's your railroad!  You are the CEO with the final say.  As you pointed out to Alan @AlanRail all suggestions are welcome.  Alan has been a great influence on many modelers with his background and now his expertise in 3D printing, which you do quite well too.

Thanks Mark, I agree with "it's your railroad" However my wife is CEO for sure!  I appreciate all the talent on this forum, you and Alan are great example of not only expertise, but people taking the time, energy and effort to pass that expertise around the forum in constructive and positive ways. Thanks Mark and Alan for your help and also for everyone's help!

John, don't cut yourself short! You do your share of helping others here on the forum and your skills just like everyone else started somewhere and just grow from there! You have skills that many of us don't!

P.S. Thank the CEO for letting you build the layout so we have another friend here! LOL

Why do engineer chamfer or fillet sharp edges?

The reason is that as the material design comes to a sharp edge there is lesser and lesser material,

So at these edges the material is weaker and weaker thus subject to uncontrolled breakage or chipping.

to avoid this in concrete, engineers design in a chamfer usually at small 45degree angle that is added to the formwork.

For metals, like steel, engineers round off the corners specifying in the design a fillet or rounding of edges where possible to eliminate any pressure or stress points that weaken the metal.

As an aside, Architects love "clean" sharp edges, which puts structural engineers in direct conflict with these designs.

I share your desire to incorporate personal memories into your layout. I’m wrestling with the same issues for my layout. I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, but my only real train experienced were at Grand Central Station and Penn Station. ,where I had a lot of close up experience with GG-1s, New Haven  FLs, and New York Central electrics and the like.  But I’ve spent my adult life in the Cleveland area, where NYC ‘s Collinwood Yard and former Pennsylvania tracks, not to mention Terminal Tower and the mothballed B& O station were a part of my daily work life. How to incorporate these behemoths into a fun to run hi-rail layout is tough indeed. So I just let my favorite railroads predominate on the rails and will try too create urban scenery to evoke what I’ve seen and where I’ve lived. And all the while incorporating some Lionel accessories to please and amuse my grandchildren.

Rubin, you have an excellent point about the wonderful behemoth big city stations of old.  The Downtown Pittsburgh B&O station was gone by my time.  Both Mum and Dad rode the B&O into that station from out in the country numerous times.  I was exposed to the Western Maryland in West Virginia just into Chessie System days and grew up next to the B&O tracks, so I just run those trains and think of the bigger terminuses in my mind.

@RubinG posted:

I share your desire to incorporate personal memories into your layout. I’m wrestling with the same issues for my layout. I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, but my only real train experienced were at Grand Central Station and Penn Station. ,where I had a lot of close up experience with GG-1s, New Haven  FLs, and New York Central electrics and the like.  But I’ve spent my adult life in the Cleveland area, where NYC ‘s Collinwood Yard and former Pennsylvania tracks, not to mention Terminal Tower and the mothballed B& O station were a part of my daily work life. How to incorporate these behemoths into a fun to run hi-rail layout is tough indeed. So I just let my favorite railroads predominate on the rails and will try too create urban scenery to evoke what I’ve seen and where I’ve lived. And all the while incorporating some Lionel accessories to please and amuse my grandchildren.

Sounds like a good plan, I grew up taking the elevated subways though out the 5 boroughs. Took about an hour to get to my grammer school when we moved from brooklyn to queens. Lots of time riding the subways. Also my dad worked in sunnyside yards in queens, and I would tag along as a little tyke. Summers I stayed at my aunt and uncles in eastern pa. Remembering the column banks of shale from the mines my uncle worked inside. Huge mountainous banks of black sooty mess, what a great playgound. LOL

@Mark Boyce posted:

Rubin, you have an excellent point about the wonderful behemoth big city stations of old.  The Downtown Pittsburgh B&O station was gone by my time.  Both Mum and Dad rode the B&O into that station from out in the country numerous times.  I was exposed to the Western Maryland in West Virginia just into Chessie System days and grew up next to the B&O tracks, so I just run those trains and think of the bigger terminuses in my mind.

Yeah, nothing can replace those memories for sure.

@Aegis21 posted:

Sounds like a good plan, I grew up taking the elevated subways though out the 5 boroughs. Took about an hour to get to my grammer school when we moved from brooklyn to queens. Lots of time riding the subways. Also my dad worked in sunnyside yards in queens, and I would tag along as a little tyke. Summers I stayed at my aunt and uncles in eastern pa. Remembering the column banks of shale from the mines my uncle worked inside. Huge mountainous banks of black sooty mess, what a great playgound. LOL

I too grew up in Brooklyn and rode the  subways when I went “ into the city”, sometimes to visit Madison Hardware, the Lionel showroom or Model Railroad Equipment Corp. I also took the elevated lines to go to Coney Island or the World Fair. But my exposure to “ real railroads” was very limited until I came to Cleveland to go to law school.

You guys are so lucky to have road train growing up! All I have done is gone on one of those silly Dinner Trains my wife wanted to do one night when we first started dating!

@mike g. posted:

You guys are so lucky to have road train growing up! All I have done is gone on one of those silly Dinner Trains my wife wanted to do one night when we first started dating!

Those Dinner trains are a must to get approval from the wife for anything.!

Thanks to everyone's help and support, the lift bridge redesign works perfectly! I'll take a video in the morning, as a bathroom remodel is calling me. Again thanks all!

@Aegis21 posted:

Thanks to everyone's help and support, the lift bridge redesign works perfectly! I'll take a video in the morning, as a bathroom remodel is calling me. Again thanks all!

John that is great news! I bet it is slicker than mine! I Can't wait to see it in action!

Hi Mike, First it is because of you that I would have even attempted to do a motorized bridge. And your documentation and instruction was great. Had I only followed it to a tee I would not has wasted so much time and materials. Thanks for all your help!

That works pretty slick. The video shows a good view of the hand painted backdrop that came out well. I can see Chris Lyons stamp on it.

Wow John that sure is slick! It's a lot better then mine and so much cleaner! Great job and just wonderful!

John, that is much more neatly done than mine.  The pins and base where they seat are very nice.  I too like the backdrop!!!

@Dave_C posted:

That works pretty slick. The video shows a good view of the hand painted backdrop that came out well. I can see Chris Lyons stamp on it.

Definitely ALL Chris Lyons, if it weren't for his excellant tutorials I would have blue sky, I am absolutely NOT an artist. Chris is correct, anyone can do this background.

@mike g. posted:

Wow John that sure is slick! It's a lot better then mine and so much cleaner! Great job and just wonderful!

Not sure about the better part, I did have MANY failures before this finished successfully. I need to pay more attention to instructions (like keeping the hinge point above the tracks! Thanks for your tremendous help and support.

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, that is much more neatly done than mine.  The pins and base where they seat are very nice.  I too like the backdrop!!!

Thanks a ton Mark for your kind words. You have done such beautiful work, I would be extremely happy to do half the craftsmanship that you have shown on your railroad. Now I hope I can get trains across the bridge. LOL

Ok so now to work on the trestle section and bridge approaches. I have been getting the trestle section built and painted with a 2.9% rise. I hope the supports are stable enough and can handle the lateral forces that it will be subjected too with trains on them being 7 inches high at their peak. I plan on having foam under the trestle as a catch bed in case of failure during test runs.

John are you also 3D printing the tressupports? Also are you putting your programs on the 3d forum page?

@mike g. posted:

John are you also 3D printing the tressupports? Also are you putting your programs on the 3d forum page?

Hi Mike,

To help with recovering from kneeling on two artificial knees laying bathroom tile, I am working on trestle pieces. Not really sure how to design these pieces a totally parametric design so anyone can change the height to their needs. If I am successful at doing it that way, of course I will put them on the 3D site. At this moment working on a 072 curved unit with side cat walks. Here is a pic to give general idea. btw this is not at all parametric at this moment.

John, that is looking great!!  Yes, take care of your new knees!

Morning John, Mark is correct that looks great I bet it is going to work wonderfully for you! I hope you will post more pictures as you go along!