NS (PRR) Fort Wayne Line?

I live along the Ft. Wayne line.  NS has been running a lot of oil trains through here recently.  I think it has a lot to do with the speed restrictions of the oil trains.  I have seen some interesting  motive power from various roads. 

 

Tom

Norfolk Southern's trackage rights with CSX The owner of the line (Genes see & Wyoming just leases it) allows NS only 6-8 trains per day on the line and it would be EXTREMELY unlikely that CSX would be open to increasing that number, not to mention the HUGE investment in the line that would take. NS has at times more traffic than the Water Level Route and the NKP can comfortably handle, but not 30 trains worth.

Here is one.  http://allaboardohio.org/2014/...-wayne-line-rebirth/

 

With a Google search one can find all sorts of details to new crew districts in Mansfield to huge track gangs currently at work.  

 

I think the goal now is to get the worst section (jointed and dark) up to 40 MPH.

 

I assume the NKP line is either jammed too or not suitable as an alternate route?

The old Pennsy line through here is run by FW&E. Not sure who owns it. The biggest issue Norfolk Southern has is getting enough train crews.

The NKP line is too far north to be a viable alternate route for this traffic. It also carries mostly high-speed traffic - 60 mph double stacks and road railers. The NKP is single track CTC with passing sidings and currently sees 30+ trains per day.

 

Operationally it makes no sense to put speed restricted, 40 mph traffic on a single-track line that is already carrying mostly high speed traffic. It would just serve to slow the high speed trains down to 40 mph...not at all what they want to do.

 

By using the former P Company line for the speed-restricted traffic, all the "slow" traffic will be on that line from Alliance, Ohio to Chicago. That leaves the NKP and everything west of Alliance on the C&P and the ex-NYC Water Level Route free for the high speed traffic.

 

East of Alliance, the former PRR is all double and even some triple track, giving the Pittsburgh East Dispatcher a bit more flexibility in how he runs the railroad with a "fast-slow" traffic mix. East of Pittsburgh, the slow traffic will likely take the Conemaugh line between Pittsburgh and Johnstown, leaving the Pittsburgh line free for the high-speed traffic.

The line is owned by CSX. It is leased to the CF&E, which is owned Genessee and Wyoming, a short line conglomerate. G&W got the CF&E when they acquired Rail America's railroads. NS uses the line on trackage rights that were negotiated when NS, who had purchased the line from Conrail, sold it to CSX as a condition of the Conrail split up.

Thanks for the info Rich.  What is the C&P?  

 

Its a good thing when railroads are trying to figure out where to put all the traffic. Understandably Conrail was worried about what "to do with all the track" back in the late 70's.

 

The Water Level Route does have space for 4 tracks...is adding one or both back not an option?

 

Its time to put the Panhandle back in service

I would love to see that happen!  The bridge across the Ohio is still there!

 

Woo Hoo!!!!!

 

George

Somewhat related ( same area and PC/Conrail) but I have been watching a bunch of the Penn Central Green Frog videos.  Through the 70's it seems they ran lots of freight on the NYC through Ann Arbor...where did all this traffic get moved to...or did it die with the industry decline in Detroit?

 

Or did PC use this line as a parallel to the Water Level Route?

The Cleveland & Pittsburgh. Between Cleveland and Alliance the C&P is now part of the NS main line to Chicago. It connects with the Pittsburgh Line in Alliance, Ohio. South of Alliance it is a secondary line which works its way to the shore of the Ohio River just south of Wellsville, OH. It then follows the river and rejoins the Pittsburgh Line at Rochester, PA.

Due to high traffic volumes in the past year, alternative routing has been utilized to free up the Chicago Line between Chicago and Pittsburgh (Conway).  The Former PRR between Crestline and Chicago has seen new life as a result.  NS rarely utilized their traffic rights between Fort Wayne and Bucyrus prior to last fall. Currently NS is using the line for up to 6 eastbound trains per day (unit trains as well as mixed freight). 

Unfortunately, the line is still mainly stick rail and in need of serious upgrades.  NS invested in rail and tie upgrades last year and look for additional upgrades in the near future (highly unlikely that the line will be re-signaled though).

The former NKP line is also being used to alleviate traffic but mainly westbounds from Conway (operating via former PRR /NYC to Ashtabula, the former NKP to Cleveland and Bellevue).

Just curious.  The Water Level Route is now just NS West of Cleveland...and CSX at Cleveland cuts down and then over to the B&O...so back when it was Conrail..how did they squeeze all that traffic from the PRR main and the NYC Main onto the Water Level Route at Cleveland on to Chicago?  Especially considering NS can't fit just their own trains on it.

Simple.  there wasn't near as much traffic then, and it what there was was split between THREE competitors instead of two.

Man this gets confusing.  If I am remembering correctly, back in the Conrail days, Alliance, Oh was where Conrail's Cleveland, Fort Wayne and Pittsburgh Lines connected.  The Fort Wayne went from Alliance to Louisville, Canton, Massillon, Orrville and onward West.  Cleveland Line went Northwest from Alliance and the track going East from Alliance was the Pittsburgh Line.  I recently read that the line between Conway, PA (actually starting a few miles East of Conway) and Alliance, Ohio and continuing West through Canton, Ohio is now all referred to as the Fort Wayne Line by Norfolk Southern and that the Pittsburgh line starts to the East of Conway, PA. 

If we are talking about the old PRR "Broadway Ltd" line after departing Pittsburg the line went through Canton, OH, Crestline , OH, Lima, OH, Ft Wayne, IN, Valpariso, IN, Gary, IN and ending in Chicago, IL. The line is still largely intact but a segment through Western, IN (IIRC starting around Valpariso )was abandoned by Conrail and through service to Chicago on this route is no longer possible without diverting traffic. Now the old NYC line is getting crowded, railroads are beginning to see how the line if it was maintained well, would serve as a viable alternate route to Chicago.

 

The FT Wayne line must have a connection to the Chicago Line near Gary?

 

Is "Bayard Branch" the official NS name for the C&P between Alliance and Rochester?

 

I was checking out the C&P on Google and noticed it has some double track segments covered by the new crossings?  Yet the track looks usable.  Wonder if the DOT did this against the RR permission...I have seen that happen before.

 

 

The Fort Wayne line has an active connection with the NKP at Hobart the NS uses for it's trains, and CF&E uses a connection to the Porter Branch (Ex-Michigan Central) at Tolleston in Gary.  There has been some indication that with the reconfiguration of tracks around the Gary airport, the line MAY be reconnected as a through route, though on a slightly different alignment from it's current route.  The line is intact but disconnected north of Tolleston (diamonds removed) up to the airport area.

Try, The Fort Wayne Railfan website.  This might help.  LOCOMOTION

Maybe this will help.  Click on the image to make it larger.

 

 

The vast majority of the traffic today travels the route of the green line. In other words, it runs the Fort Wayne Line west out of Conway to Alliance where it swings on to the Cleveland Line. The Cleveland Line connects with the Water Level Route in Cleveland.

 

NS has two options for the "slow" traffic to/from Chicago over the CF&E/Fort Wayne Line. It can go east on the Fort Wayne Line (the green line) to Conway, or it can turn south on the Bayard Branch and go to Conway that way. That keeps this slower traffic off the high-speed main between Alliance and Beaver, PA.

 

Essentially, NS has two routes between Chicago and Conway...the main line (Water level Route, Cleveland Line and Fort Wayne line east of Alliance) or the CF&E, Fort Wayne Line, Bayard Branch route to Conway. There is actually a third route involving the NKP to Bellevue, the Columbus Line south to Bucyrus and the Fort Wayne Line from there east.

 

Complicated, isn't it?

It is complex for sure but at least these lines are all seeing activity.

 

So what is CSX doing for Chicago line traffic?  They should have just as much traffic.

 

PC ran freights through Ann Arbor...what happened to that traffic?

Interesting reading guys. I see they have been rebuilding/realigning Homewood Jct. over the Turnpike in my travels back and forth to PGH. Could this be putting more traffic onto the old C&P?

They are just replacing the bridge on one leg pf the wye over the turnpike. This is where the Koppel Secondary connects with the Fort Wayne Line. 765 turned on that wye when we ran NS trips out of Pittsburgh.

I thought it looked as if both bridges were being replaced. There's also two separate piers on the north side of the Turnpike so it's pretty hectic looking right now. Of course I am just trying to keep the rubbernecking to a minimum when cruising through. Google Maps is showing views from September 2014 if anyone's interested.

Yeah,I've been driving The Pike pretty regularly for the last year or so and the construction has been fun to watch.  With the rail activity adjacent to the turnpike, it is a spot for a lot of action.  It's been about 2 weeks since I've gone that way and will head to New Castle on Thursday.  It is always interesting to mark the progress.

 

Norm

Norm, I suspect you get by that spot more often than I do, so I'll take your word for it that both bridges are being replaced. The last time I went through there I only noticed one bridge being worked on, but it's been a while...and I was going pretty fast!  

Is this growth in freight traffic a simple return to the way it was prior to 2008...or even beyond that?

I go don that way pretty often to take NS photos but have stay away from Homewood Junction because of the construction but will recon the area next time. Before they tore it all up it was  nice spot plus following the NS main line in to Ohio.

       
       

Actually there is a 4th route (really 4a and 4b).....Former NKP from Bellevue to Cleveland or the NYC from Elkhart / Toledo to Cleveland, then then Cloggsville connection onto the NKP at East Cleveland.  From there, just a short trip over the former NKP to Ashtabula and then down the Youngstown Line to Rochester (Conway).

...and yes we use all these routes for trains operating to and from Conway everyday.  However, with the expansion of Bellevue, time will tell what will become of the once mighty Conway Yard.

Does any intermodal travel through Youngstown on NS?

Certainly not with an expensive SLR camera.

I drove through this area today.  All of the bridgework is set.  It appears that work is now being done on the approaching rail beds onthe south side of the turnpike.  It looks like heavy gravel is being brought in to backfill.

 

Norm

I have read in places the NS Chicago line can see 100+ trains per day.  

Which line, the former NYC or the NKP, or both together?

Strictly speaking, the Chicago Line is the former New York Central, originally designated as such by Conrail. The endpoints are Cleveland and Chicago.

 

On the former NKP the two cities are linked via the Cleveland, Fostoria and Chicago Districts.

 

 

 

 

I think that 100 number was (not likely as high right now) between Chicago and Porter IN.   My experience railfanning Goshen IN (east of Elkhart) has been about half of that, including traffic onto and off the Marion Branch.