O Tubular Track

Kevster posted:

I am new to model trains and want to build a small layout that I can learn from and not be afraid to let my grand kids play with.  I have browsed/read a lot of posts but still am not clear on some details.

Questions

1 - can I cut straight tubular track to a particular length?

2 - if I can cut, can I use the same pins again?  Do they pull out?

3 - are modern engines DC powered?  Or AC?  Or combo?

Thanks,

Kevin

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) No - AC powered (3-rail). The Can motors are often DC motors but the rectifier/boards switch it. Postwar had AC, open frame motors and Lionel has produced some in the modern era, primarily in the "Postwar Celebration Series" and similar "throwback" sets but I don't think they've made anything with an AC Pullmor motor is quite a few years now.

Kevster posted:

I am new to model trains and want to build a small layout that I can learn from and not be afraid to let my grand kids play with.  I have browsed/read a lot of posts but still am not clear on some details.

Questions

1 - can I cut straight tubular track to a particular length?

2 - if I can cut, can I use the same pins again?  Do they pull out?

3 - are modern engines DC powered?  Or AC?  Or combo?

Thanks,

Kevin

1 - yes,  using a standard hacksaw, motor tool cutoff wheel, hobby saw (like the "Zona" (think that's right) brand)

2 - yes, though the pin is crimped into the track initially (if you look at a pin, there are areas just a bit in from each end where they get narrower)   you may need to spread the rail a bit to get it out.  You can then carefully try to crimp it similarly when you use it in the newly cut edge, but make an effort not to disturb the top surface of the rail while doing so (keep it smooth).  I don't have a fool proof method that is easy to explain in a sentence for this last part.

3 - Most run on AC, some can also function on DC.  Even for most starter sets these days, primary power is AC.  There may be a random exception or 2 once in a while, but it's not like the late 70's to early 80's when a lot of the starter sets needed DC and would get fried if you put them on an AC layout.

-Dave

If you plan on cutting track, I highly recommend buying a Dremel Sawmax. Cuts are quick and precise--just be sure to wear eye protection as the sparks will fly. 

John

Removing the pins you can tap the pin with a hammer, as that will push it beyond the crimp. then with a firm pull and it should go past the crimp area and you will ( if it come out when you did the firm pull ) come out . This way you don't have to spread the track any to get it out. 

rtraincollector posted:

Removing the pins you can tap the pin with a hammer, as that will push it beyond the crimp. then with a firm pull and it should go past the crimp area and you will ( if it come out when you did the firm pull ) come out . This way you don't have to spread the track any to get it out. 

Might depend if the crimp from the pin to the rail is stronger than the crimps holding the rail down to the ties.

While I'm pretty sure I've not actually pulled a whole rail out accidentally, I've certainly noted the rail shift on the ties when trying to do things like this sometimes.

-Dave

Thanks all.  I was wanting to purchase the longer straight sections and cut them to fit to reduce the number of joints.  Sounds like i will be able to do that.

Yep. Hacksaw, cutoff wheel etc., sand/file burrs, and done.   ......if you remeber to use the pin end in measuring track and then cut the excess off of the pinless end, you might not need to pull or add any. Do your long cuts first, & shortest last when cutting down a length of anything. ..in general at least. Some math for specific cut combos may eliminate waste.

Buy pins, 3per cut at least, for any pinless cut offs you still want to use. and ties are pretty advisable, even on tin. Ties are also what you are likely to fall short on vs pins. Be mindful there is a cardboard insulator on center rails.

(I once needed about 1/2 and soldered the foot on 1/2 extentions .)  

Pliers on the pin and a screwdriver on the rail web while prying the pliers will pull pins best just short of opening the web. Dont jab yourself or cut yourself on the rail edges, they can be sharp   

Do yourself a favor and rid yourself of hollow pins; they can get red hot. Watch the center rail for them first & foremost that rail works harder being alone at the job. Crush them with pliers to test for solids and buy solid ones.

Dave45681 posted:

 

Even for most starter sets these days, primary power is AC.  There may be a random exception or 2 once in a while, but it's not like the late 70's to early 80's when a lot of the starter sets needed DC and would get fried if you put them on an AC layout

 Actually, it gets confusing when talking about starter sets. All of the Lionel LC sets come with DC power now, but will run on AC or DC.

ADCX Rob posted:

Dave45681 posted:

 

Even for most starter sets these days, primary power is AC.  There may be a random exception or 2 once in a while, but it's not like the late 70's to early 80's when a lot of the starter sets needed DC and would get fried if you put them on an AC layout

 Actually, it gets confusing when talking about starter sets. All of the Lionel LC sets come with DC power now, but will run on AC or DC.

Rob why do you think they come with DC power? Do you think it’s cheaper to build? I noticed the DC power on a recent set I bought.

Steve

ADCX Rob posted:

Dave45681 posted:

 

Even for most starter sets these days, primary power is AC.  There may be a random exception or 2 once in a while, but it's not like the late 70's to early 80's when a lot of the starter sets needed DC and would get fried if you put them on an AC layout

 Actually, it gets confusing when talking about starter sets. All of the Lionel LC sets come with DC power now, but will run on AC or DC.

You are correct of course.  I phrased my response a bit poorly.  I have always been cognizant more from a "don't damage the starter set engine" point of view, as I remember the one "Workin' on the Railroad" set I had in the late 70's (and many other sets, I believe) used that little red DC power pack, and my father was sure to inform me I couldn't run that engine on "regular" AC power used by all the other Lionels. 

I guess now the care that must be taken is don't try to run anything that is AC only on a starter set transformer.  Still a possible problem, I suppose, but maybe slightly better than the old situation.

-Dave

+1 on using a metal cutoff wheel on tubular track (w/eye protection).  I use a Rotozip R.A. attachment.

A jig to clamp the rails firmly is very handy.  Simple to make on a table saw.  Cut grooves to match the rail heads into a wood block.  Hold or clamp the block onto the rails.  The grooves hold the rails steady - important when using a hand saw.

Clean up the burrs and flashing (AKA meat hooks) with a file.

RideTheRails posted:

Rob why do you think they come with DC power? Do you think it’s cheaper to build? I noticed the DC power on a recent set I boughtt

Steve

It eliminates phasing issues when two or more LC sets are connected(intentionally or not) on a layout with add-on switches & crossings.

You certainly don't need any special cutting tools.  A hacksaw and a file will work fine.  A Dremel with a cutoff wheel is easier, but no more precise.  Some guys just like to buy tools for the sake of buying tools.  Buying long straights and cutting them to fit has always been my method.  I hope you build it.  Good luck.

Another source for cut track is at train shows.  I have bought several boxes, bags, etc. of cut track in decent shape for something like $5 a box.

When you need  2" or 3" little piece of filler it's pretty darned easy to enjoy the benefits of someone else doing the cutting.  When my layout is finished, I'll put all the unused ones back in another box, sell it at a show for $5 and let someone else benefit from the oddball pieces.

Steven J. Serenska

Once again, Thank You to all who have responded.  I have most of those tools mentioned already and have ordered some track.  I will start a new thread about my proposed layout and look forward to your suggestions/comments.

P.S. - I should have asked the question about AC/DC in different thread too.

The above illustration shows how to grip a pin and turn the pliers using the bottom of the rail as a fulcrum. The pin will come right out.

ADCX Rob posted:

Dave45681 posted:

 

Even for most starter sets these days, primary power is AC.  There may be a random exception or 2 once in a while, but it's not like the late 70's to early 80's when a lot of the starter sets needed DC and would get fried if you put them on an AC layout

 Actually, it gets confusing when talking about starter sets. All of the Lionel LC sets come with DC power now, but will run on AC or DC.

Correct - so if you subsequently upgrade your transformer to something like a CW-80, Z-1000 or other AC transformer, the Lionel Lion Chief starter set engines will still run fine.

They offer a special pair of elecrician plyers for crimping tubular rail, best investment for a tubular track user..  I have had mine since my late teens and I am almost 45 now.  Your better Lionel dealer should be able to source a pair for you.  Lionel did do some DC powered 3 rail trains in the late 1970's, my Southern Streak set was this way, I had to switch transformers when I wanted to run my dad's postwar era engine.  

OK Going to play the devils advocate here.Why do you think you have to cut track if you are making a simple very small layout? If you run out of room just go down a section.They even sell 1/2 sections for convenience sake.Nick

Cost per foot and less connections to ever go bad come to  mind first.

Less click.clack The sound level.drops.slightly from lack of that and more  rigidity. 

I bought long for that added structure of long rails vs jointed when I elevated a line.

A disadvantage might be actually less joints over a distance to evenly distribute needed gaps among, for "floating" track on the benchwork, allowing for temperature. expansions and contractions. 

"O Tubular Track" - maybe it's just that time of year, but I thought maybe that this was a new Xmas song to complement "O Christmas Tree". I was wrong.

Lyrics?

rockstars1989 posted:

OK Going to play the devils advocate here.Why do you think you have to cut track if you are making a simple very small layout? If you run out of room just go down a section.They even sell 1/2 sections for convenience sake.Nick

Maybe a layout with this example might not qualify as "small" in many people's eyes, but if you insert an O72 switch anywhere, there is no standard piece that is the same length as the straight part of the switch. 

At least not in modern production.  I believe I have seen a reference to such a beast from either post or pre-war years, but I forget where (might have been on the track planning template I had years ago).

So you can cut an exact piece for the other side of the oval to make it match with one piece rather than cobbling together a few smaller pieces (off the top of my head, I think a 10" straight and a half straight are too long).

That's my example, there may be others.

-Dave

rockstars1989 posted:

OK Going to play the devils advocate here.Why do you think you have to cut track if you are making a simple very small layout? If you run out of room just go down a section.They even sell 1/2 sections for convenience sake.Nick

I guess it depends on your definition of small and of simple.  My plan is to build a simple layout that can be easily expanded, and as I mentioned earlier, I wanted to reduce the number of joints.  The layout will be built in 6' sections that will require the tracks to begin/end at the end of the underlying support surface.

When I start a new thread on the layout, I think that you will see then.  And as others have said, it seems that there are times when a standard commercial piece of track just does not fill the space correctly.