Old New York

Great looking pictures Ben

In the late 1930's my godfather used to take me on rides from the Broadway-Astoria to lower Manhattan via the 2nd ave. L. It was ablast going over the Queensborough Bridge! Too a little kid's eyes it was pure heaven. These Photos are very nostalgic to me. Thanks so much for sharing them on the forum!!!

A great set of photos Ben . They tell us a lot about the Transit service over the Queensboro Bridge and the Brooklyn Bridge over the years. Your first Photo is likely late 1944 early 1945. The BMT's train shed at Park Row has been dismantled and the façade of the IRT El spur to City Hall has yet to be modified into its final configuration. It was sort of squared off and what is interesting is that it was done for the upper level as well, even though second avenue trains which used the upper level was discontinued in 1942. BMT service over the Brooklyn Bridge ended in March 1944.

The second photo shows the BMT Park Row train shed at its greatest extent as it did cross over Park Row. There were actually two sets of platforms in the train shed one in front of the other too handle all the Brooklyn El services which crossed the Bridge prior to the 4th ave subway and the Nassau loop. 

The third photo shows the BMT train shed cut back.

The fourth Photo shows us the Queensboro Bridge when it first opened or just before. The trackways are in place for the second ave El even though the tracks are yet to be installed and the two level BMT-IRT El station yet to be built. There are trolley tracks from two different companies. You can see a two rail system and next to it , the center conduit system as used bu the third avenue and other manhattan companies.

The next two photos show us the second Ave El on the Manhattan side. These are MUDC cars we see and notice the jog in the track Sometime after the El was installed on the Bridge, There was a track realignment to the North side to allow the creation of a roadway.

You can see that roadway in the last photo next to the El Tracks. A train is crossing to Queens made up of gate cars.

The second ave El went to Astoria and Flushing in queens. Gate cars and MUDC's were used. The Line using the Steinway tunnels which we know today as the Number seven also served Astoria and Flushing. In the 30's and 40s in the prewar era, this line would have used LowV's and the small fleet of Worlds fair cars .

The BMT service was from the North Platform sets now gone. Standard, Triplexes and R-1s operated into the station from the 60th street tunnel. At Queensboro plaza, riders changed to gate cars and later the Q car trains to ride to Astoria and Flushing. BMT operations were in a round robin style, ie The Plaza to Astoria, back to the plaza, to Flushing, back to the plaza and repeating the cycle to Astoria . There was a very complex system of flyovers at the east end of the station to allow all these moves. There was also a flyover or maybe better called a duckunder which allowed the BMT subway trains to access a tail track to lay up and change ends. The tail track was on the south side of the El aas it crossed over Sunnyside yards ending just west of the 33rd street station. You can still see the steel trackway as you ride east on todays number 7 train.

Here are a few from Manhattan in the time before World War 1. That makes them prewar doesn't it?????

This is Wall and Broad street in 1911. The building immediately to the left is the Federal reserve. It actually served as the capital of the US before Washington DC. It looks pretty much the same today. If you saw "Ghost" this is the building in front of which Whoopi Goldberg handed off the check to the nuns

We are at 5th ave and East 42nd street. Its 1910 . it was a busy place and one can see that it was a traffic nightmare 100 years ago as well

 5th ave in 1913. We have the double decker bus on the avenue. This is the predecessor to 5th ave coach. Perhaps NY Omnibus. That company took over the streetcar company known as the Green Line. It was all busses by the mid 1930s . Progressive  they were?

 NY Public Library at 42nd street and 5th ave in 1915/. Looks pretty much this way today. Subway entrance for the Number 7 line is added on the 42nd street side after this photo was made. 

 Looking to the Northwest corner of 5th and 42nd street in 1915. The traffic is unbelievable. Almost like the present day. %th Ave was two way in  the day and it was that way when I was a youngster. The building we see on the northwest corner was replaced sometime after with a more modern office building. It became the center of New York City Offices of all the major railroads in the country. I can remember looking up in the windows and seeing the logos of the Union Pacific, The Santa Fe, The Chicago and Northwestern , etc in those windows.

 Here is a view of the Manhattan Bridge under construction in 1909. Its rather interesting to see how they built these, suspending the decking from the main cables and working out from the towers . I would think that balanced loading on the cables made this method a requirement. Just a little engineering here. The Manhattan was the third span crossing the East River  for Which John Roebling had a hand in the design . When it opened, The bridge carried the trackways of the BRT's (BMT) new 4th ave subway. The track pair on the south routed trains toward Chambers street station and the track pair on the North side of the Bridge routed trains uptown on Broadway in manhattan to Times Square.There also car lines for the Third ave trolley line and the Green Trolley company running over the Bridge as well. Not much room for cars and vehicles in those days.  

Subway fires have always been a problem. Here is one from 1915 at 55t street. This I think is Broadway on the original IRT route . Note the sign for the Buick Automobile company on the right. Later GM would have a dealership in this location which was there in my younger days.

To me this the most interesting thread on this forum! This is always my first when logging onto the forum. As a lifelong New Yorker I enjoy it immensely! I thank all of you fellows for these historic photos and facts!

One comment, with the Manhattan bridge it was designed by Leon Moisseiff, John Roebling died almost 40 years before the bridge was finished, and had nothing to do with it, or the Williamsburg. Moisseiff was one of the top bridge engineers in this country, but is probably most remembered for a spectacular failure, the infamous "Galloping Gertie" Tacoma Narrows Bridge that shook itself apart in a 40 mph wind. A panel of engineers later absolved him of responsibility for the bridge going down, that he used commonly accepted engineering practices (though there is an interesting side note to that, O.H Ahman, who designed a lot of the bridges and tunnels around NYC (George Washington,Throggs Neck, Whitestone, Triborough, Verazzano, Brooklyn Battery Tunnel) was the head of that panel, and after the Tacoma Narrows went down he had them do work on the Whitestone (which opened a bit before the Tacoma Narrows) to stiffen it up, since he had used similar design principles, and the Whitestone, like the Tacoma Narrows , is over a tidal straight that can get pretty stiff breezes and such. What this kind of indicates is if they condemned Moisseiff, they would have been condemning their own bridges

Thank you for your added info regarding Mr Moisseiff's role. It is most interesting especially his association with the great bridge projects in the nation at that time  In my post ,my reference to John Roebling was meant to relate to the company he had established , John A Roebling sons Company. The company was a foremost supplier of the steel woven cables used in suspension bridge design. I believe this company was the supplier of these materials for both the Williamsburg and Manhattan Bridges. The company's influence on the design of the Manhattan Bridge is thought to be from the political influence of the company. As originally planned, the Bridge was to employ a different design than what was ultimately developed . It involved the use of chains . It is thought that the Roebling company's influence in the City's political power base at the time was able to kill the original plan . When Mayor McClellan came to office, the bridges design was revised, Mr Moisseff assuming the design role and Roebling company's then supplied the steel woven cables for the project. It was in that sense that Roebling had a hand in the design.  

Thinking that the phenomenon that was the cause of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge failure was that known as Aeolian Vibration. In short, a laminar flow can set up vortices and create a vibratory force with frequency that resonates with the natural frequency of the structure. When this occurs it can result in oscillations of increasing amplitude until the structure comes apart. The phenomenon was probably not too well understood until the Tacoma event.   

  Was there some kind of law that you had to wear a hat back in those days ?

Youngster!  Men always wore hats.  People dressed up to travel.  Even on cruises, men wore coats and ties.  There used to be men's hat stores all over.  Danbury, CT, was a hat-making center.

Ben

Yes it was the customs house but when customs moved , it became a sub treasury for storage of precious metals and later the federal reserve. Its a museum today known as Federal Hall

Its the period 1953-55 and New Yorks last elevated, the 3rd Avenue El , is on the way out. Service to South Ferry had been eliminated in 1950 and the spur to City Hall closed in 1953. For these years the 3rd Ave E terminated at the Upper level of the Chatham square station. It was pretty high up being at the second level of the El Complex at this location. Look at the bumper at the end of the track. Do you think it could have stopped a train?

At Canal street, the tracks to the upper level merged with the tracks leading down to the City Hall spur. The inbound track to City Hall spur looks unused for a time.

So Here is an aerial of Manhattan from two decades earlier, about 1931 or so. In the foreground you can see the PRR emerging from the Hudson River tunnels to enter Pennsylvania station. Just to the right, we see the New York Centrals yard at 31st street. This was the uptown station of the original Hudson River railroad chartered in 1850. The Empire State building is new and you can see it near center. The focal piece of the photo is the dirigible " Los Angeles" , a vessel in the United States Navy  fleet. The Los Angeles was built by the Zeppelin Company as a war reparation payment to the US. She was the only US Navy Dirigible to survive the two decade period of US Navy rigid air ship operations. Three other vessels were built for the US Navy but were lost in flight. She is about 10 years old here.

Heading East, we are in Brooklyn, East New York to be precise . This is looking west into the Eastern Parkway station. Time is in the 1920s. The train is likely a Broadway Brooklyn Local coming from Atlantic ave and heading down to Canal Street in Manhattan. Further into the distance you can see the Canarsie track ways crossing over the Broadway El. In the foreground we have the leads to the East New York Yard , on the left, from the Fukton Street El and on the right from the Broadway line. Through Broadway trains used the ramps to avoid the crossing with the yard leads.

So now to Queens. Its still before 1950 and we are at Main Street and Roosevelt Avenue in Flushing Queens. You can see the subway entrance and note the signage and lamps for both the BMT and IRT. This photo was made when the Joint BMT-IRT operations were still in place on the Flushing and Astoria lines.

Heading back west and advancing in time to about where we started, its 1955 and we are at Queensboro Plaza at street level. We have a car of the Queensboro Bridge Railway, turning on the tail track for its trip back to Manhattan over the Bridge. Above is a great view of the complex trackways that once served the trains of the BMT and IRT in providing the joint El service in Queens. This street car line was the last to operate within New York City limits , its last run in 1957. One of the interesting aspects of the route was near the end of the bridge in Manhattan where the cars entered the Underground terminal. There was a grade crossing with two lanes of automobile traffic at a 30 degree angle. Had to be pretty exciting at times. 

I love Queensboro Plaza  Everytime I operate through there I look at all the el structure and figure out how it used to be configured    Cant find any good pic with the original configuration  Between there and Broadway Junction there is a lot of history

I was to the COL. club today and was saying just that. Not enough pictures of that complex. I remember the north side as a kid, I was born in 1943 and still remember the "Q" cars from Astoria & Flushing, and the BMT standards coming from the city on the top and returning on the bottom for the trip back to Brooklyn.

The station was served by trains from the IRT 2nd ave el ( to 1942) , IRT Steinway tunnel 42nd st, BMT 60th st Tunnel and BMT shuttle trains to Astoria and Flushing. IRT trains from both lines provided service to both Astoria and Flushing , BMT trains using 60th street terminated at Queensboro plaza and BMT shuttle trains from the Plaza went to Astoria (upper level} and  Flushing (lower Level). There was a round robin service Astoria to the plaza to Flushing and return.

Here is a view of the original station as it existed about 1917 . There is a low V train on the south side having come from the Steinway tunnels. The North side is partially complete. The BMT tracks are in the foreground and the track from the 60th street tunnel is not yet in place. 

This photo shows the east side of the North side of the staion. The track is gone but the pair of trackways on the right is the pair that went to the Astoria El descending as it turned onto Northern Boulevard . The tracks that are in place today which carry the BMT trains onto the Astoria line are at a higher level as they cross over the original BMT shuttle trackways and descend to the Astoria El. These tracks were originally used for 2nd Ave El and Steinway trains which ran to Astoria. The crossover at the Plaza on the upper level allowed this maneuver. I would think there was a crossover on the south side lower level which provided for the Manhattan bound alternate service.

This is a view looking East on the North side showing the BMT Shuttle trains. There is a train coming from Astoria on the lower level and trains to Astoria on the upper level. All are the Q cars.

In this view, we can see a set of standards coming from Manhattan into the North side of the Queensboro Plaza Station. There is a BMT shuttle in layup in the background. In the Foreground we can see the track coming from the 2nd ave El which arrived on the track and platform now used by BMT trains.

D Types were also at this station. This one has just dropped it passengers off and is heading for the layup track

The BMT shuttle train outbound to Queens points is leaving from the upper Platform on the North side in this view.

The BMT subway trains during the years of joint operation did not go further east than Queensboro Plaza. After discharging its passengers , the train moved east and descended down below The present trackways going to Flushing , rising up to a layup trackway which is still there on the flushing el without the track on the south side as the El crosses over Sunnyside Yards. The reverse move of the Subway train brought it to the lower level on the North side.

You can see the trackway in this view.

Thanks again LIRR Steamer for great Plaza station photos! They fill me with nostalgia when I was achild and riding thr 2nd ave L from Astoria as well as the BMT gate cars till the conversion to Q czrs. And the Irt LO-V cars to Manhattan.

Ditto LIRR Steamer; brings back fond memories. I believe there was a switch @ the west end of the inside lower level IRT track where it could switch to Flushing line west bound or go up the 59 St. bridge to the second ave. line. I can't remember that, I was 4 or 5 yrs. old.

In this last picture, the billboard is advertising the Baybridge development. If this is the one I'm familiar with, it is near the Throgs Neck Bridge. I worked on many of the condos in my younger days. I was a union bricklayer, and these condos had brick veneer, and brick paver patio common areas.

Don 

Another piece of Old New York is gone: Yogi Berra just passed at age 90.