Once again, help with 153IR and 151 Semaphore.

It sounds like you connected the common wire from the 151 signal device to the n/c  (normally closed) contact on the 153 IR controller instead of the actual common terminal on the 153 IR controller?

When the controller is activated it would break the lights connection if it was on the N/C connection. How are you powering the 153 IR? Track power or accessory power? 3 wires is easy unless you have eyes like I do.........

Switch the bulbs to check if the red bulb is good.

Check it for mechanical integrity - like the fiber washers are insulating the binding posts- here's the breakout-first two pages

Power the 153IR with ACC power 14V - Connect the center post of the 151 semaphore to ACC Hot. Connect the Post for green to the NC post and red to NO post.

Moonman posted:

Switch the bulbs to check if the red bulb is good.

 

 

 

No "red bulb" on the 151. There's one clear bulb that shows through the green and red lenses.

You may be thinking of the 153 block signal.

Thanks, all. Moonman, I will try your suggestion tonight and let you know. I had the center post of the 151 to "common" on the 153IR and  will move it to ACC Hot.

Well, I did get it to work, but need to do more to increase reliability.  Needs some fine tuning as blade operation is sticky.

 Looks like the center common on the 151 signal goes to the ACCPWR, light goes to ACCGND, and semaphore solenoid goes to NO.

Same type of wiring as the automatic gateman.

Thanks again for your help, all.

johnstrains posted:

Moonman posted:

Switch the bulbs to check if the red bulb is good.

 

 

 

No "red bulb" on the 151. There's one clear bulb that shows through the green and red lenses.

You may be thinking of the 153 block signal.

.Duh, thanks. I was just discussing a dwarf signal .

BANDOB posted:

Well, I did get it to work, but need to do more to increase reliability.  Needs some fine tuning as blade operation is sticky.

 Looks like the center common on the 151 signal goes to the ACCPWR, light goes to ACCGND, and semaphore solenoid goes to NO.

Same type of wiring as the automatic gateman.

Thanks again for your help, all.

Nice.

Sorry for not putting the connections in terms that were more relevant, like you have.

I don't recall any tuning threads. The first page of the service manual (the Olsen's link in blue, previous reply) gives you the procedure to make it operate well.

I do like a semaphore.

Moonman Carl, that's the reference I'm using, thanks. I think my spring is a little weak.

Mine is too, oh ...you mean the semaphore spring...

Chuck Sartor at "O'nly "3rail would have it as would Brasseur. Stretching it may be a Band-Aid, but it would not have the proper tension.

I have had to work on some old solenoid switches (like 29 of them) in the last few months. I put a small spritz of the radio-shack tuner cleaner/lube on the solenoid piston. Don't know if it helps or not, but they certainly slide real nice.

Does this "buzz" when it's activated?

Some progress, some not. I now have the operation of the blade pretty reliable, but I am still having difficulty getting the blade to work while the light bulb is on. I can easily have it work with the light going off when the blade is down, but that is not the full operation. Looking at page 15 in the 153IR controller manual, it shows multi-wire accessories, using a relay and a diode. I wonder, is the 151 considered a "multi-wire accessory?" 

If there is someone out there who has a working 151 off their 153IR without other relays or diodes, would they post and show the wiring, and the operation?

Now, when I do this:  the center common on the 151 signal goes to the ACCPWR, light goes to ACCGND, and semaphore solenoid goes to NO,  I can hear the 153IR "clicking" when activated, but no blade motion. Yet, if I connect the blade to ACGND, the blade goes down steady and stays down, as one would think.

!

OK, in the words of Roseanne RossannaDanna, "Never Mind." I got it. The original post was correct:

"On the 153 IR, I believe the output has four connections, hot, common, normally open (NO) and normally closed (NC).  On the 151 signal you want to connect the common to the 153IR common, the power for the light bulb to the hot terminal, and the coil that makes the arm go down to the normally open contact.  Connected like this the light in the signal will be on all the time and the arm will go down to the red position when the train goes by the IR device and will stay down as long as you have the time delay set for."

I don't know why I made something so simple so difficult, but here's the result.

I had the same trouble with the light on the semaphore going out when the arm goes down using 153IR. 6-14111 controller. The infrared unit works well with a two wire accessory but not the 151 semaphore. I tried your suggestion for wiring and every other wiring combination possible. I did find that the internal wiring on my 151 was opposite that shown on the old post war instructions. Maybe that was the problem. I was going to have the 151 run both a two wire gateman and the 151 but after wasting too much time I left the gateman on the 153 and connected the semaphore to an insulated track and everything works fine. My next challenge is to connect a 253 Block Signal on Fastrak using Fastrak Block sections, so you may hear from me again. I am rebuilding my PW layout after our move to a new house and am combining what I had with some modern equipment to bring it up to date. Thanks anyway for all your all your help.

@BANDOB posted:

 

...Looking at page 15 in the 153IR controller manual, it shows multi-wire accessories, using a relay and a diode. I wonder, is the 151 considered a "multi-wire accessory?" 

...

 

Lionel changed the 153IR connections and wiring instructions in 2015 but kept the same item #71-4111-250.  Page 15 of the 2002 instructions has the relay-diode diagram you describe.  Presumably you physically have the 2002 version.   I made this somewhat busy side-by-side for a previous OGR thread with a similar wiring issue.

In the case of the semaphore, that the "common" terminal can be either "hot" or "ground" can also muddy the waters.  So that said, even though the semaphore has 3 wires (vs. 2 wires), I would not call it a "multi-wire accessory".  That is, the bulb is always ON; it's just the arm that is activated ON/OFF which is a 2-wire circuit.  Note the bottom diagrams in above side-by-side refers to the semaphore and shows 2 wires.

In the no good deed goes unpunished category, my guess is the wiring to the 3-wire semaphore is cleaner if the always-ON lamp gets its power from the 153IR.  That way, the semaphore is only wired to the 153IR and there is no "loose" 3rd wire running separately back to the train transformer.

@Chris Karr posted:

...

I was going to have the 151 run both a two wire gateman and the 151 but after wasting too much time I left the gateman on the 153 and connected the semaphore to an insulated track and everything works fine...

If you'd like to waste more time, I'm sure we could operate both accessories from one 153IR...but if everything works fine then all's well that ends well.