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Looking for help in plotting a new permanent outdoor O Scale layout. The trains will be stored in a siding that comes inside my house and onto a shelf that is 36 inches off the ground and is 20 feet in length. The track will exit the house at 36 inches and come into a curve and descend to 12 inches off the ground. at the top end of the layout, there is a 12' x22'  area that will have an area for a mountain village or some other features, while the outside edge will be for a long descending run, into a 100 inch curve that will sweep back alongside the outbound run and head to the village area. 

Ideally, I would like to run long trains with a minimum of 25 freight cars or 12 passenger cars. Hopefully someone can give me some direction on this. I can build vacuum tube amplifiers and stereo systems, but I am clueless on this stuff.

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Hi John, unless you already have a lot of engines ready to go, I would sure consider going dead rail and using battery power in your engines (batteries can be inside any car, not just the engine).  It will almost eliminate track maintenance. Track power will be a lot of constant work every time you run.  Stainless track will help some.  I run stainless track with track power on my outdoor G scale layout and it runs great with very little maintenance, but G scale stuff is designed to run in a the fairly hostile environment outdoors.  Grade might be a problem too but I have some experience in that also.  My email is in my profile if you want to discuss at length.                  Happy to share my successes and mistakes.

Chris S. 

Thanks Chris... I intend on running Atlas three rail, as I understand it is very low maintenance as well. I also will run all my accessories that require power to a control panel inside the house via conduit, and run the setup on TMCC and Legacy remote, so everything will be as protected as possible and only the remote needing to be outside. As stated, the trains and cars will all come inside as well.

 Things to consider, 

First off, batteries aren't an awful route, especially outside. But I can't stand charging chores. If I forget, I'm screwed for an hour. Even in RC I started with batteries, and went to fuel for that reason. Better today, sure. But batteries don't last forever and aren't cheap by my view, it's an additional cost long term I don't want. Not to mention you can dump as much into the radios as a fully bloomed Legacy command (I didn't even hug a tree or step into a true carbon footprint )   Know yourself before you leap into batter op. deep end. Maybe dip a toe if you aren't sure.

The 24" inch drop is going to need a ton of length to have a reasonable downgrade run. And longer if you want to climb it again... and longer yet with all those cars.  (I didn't follow on the exact return to the house, if any)

7" rise/drop at 15'+ long, is about a 4.5-5 grade. Ok for short trains with a decent 1 motor loco (maybe 12 freights). That's about 50' for a 4 to 5% and  You want to be at 2% or less to climb with a huge load....100' ?  (not sure offhand, and not up for good math at the moment anyhow)

 With steam it also has to drop and stàrt the grade more gradually as the long wheelbase will teeter on an apex, and cowcatchers bottom out on center rails at the bottom (both directions on both issues too) Longer wheelbase 6 wheel trucks suffer that too but less. (0-4-0 steam are best, diesel 4 wh/truck next.)

UV sunlight on plastic ties. It needs protection, some have it some don't. They will fade, and crack in 3-6 years otherwise.

Wood isn't better. Even cleared it doesn't usually do great outside..ties are twigs.

Powered track? You want stainless or good Nickle silver. You'll have to research both, I forget the exact ins and outs of rust, vs corrosions vs resistance in the two.

The resistance is definitely higher than 'normal' with those alloys. You'd be smart to run nice fat bus wire in conduit on or underground and using a lot of drops and long 36-40" sections to reduce joint numbers to a minimum.(joints = resistance points)

You didn't mention the loco(s) you might use. This has bearing on how many cars you might pull. Heavy pulls more, rubber traction tires too. (Magnetraction needs plain steel)

Car shells; plastic or metal? You can always pull more plastic ones. (a UV clear might be a good idea. Even paint fades in sunlight)

Lit cars? That means rollers. Shoes have better contact, but the drag would be huge at 12+cars.

Use led lights, you do want to be power conservative here with such distance. (might even want to use a capàcitor with them to stop them from going out immediately if you throttle down. They can be made to light for a few minutes after power is shut off. They will fade to dark too.)

 

I have an outdoor layout  a  little as you describe.

I use 3 rail Atlas track and run MTH, Lionel, Atlas etc locos. All work fine especially in conventional mode. DCS works fine but TMCC/Leagcy isn't so good. I have a number of sections with feeds - trial-and-error will tell you hoe many you need!

Main thing is rail joints must be jumpered (I use short lengths of wire soldered to the rails (takes a bit of practice) !! Fine for the first season but then the dead spots accumulate... Use long rail/flexitrack where possible and it is easier to solder/jumper a few rail sections together before laying. Allow a few expansion gaps - dont try to get all the joints perfectly abutted - leave a little space

Track needs cleaning - by the normal methods (sigh...)

 

But the joy of seeing long trains running round sweepimg curves (none of that 072 stuff) - Ahhh!!!

 

(I do have some non-lionel etc DC locos (some 2-rail)  and am starting to fit batteries/radio control to them so I can run something without having to clean the track or fit pickups to the 2-rail locos. Works fine but has one or two issues.

 

Go for it!

I have an outdoor layout  a  little as you describe.

I use 3 rail Atlas track and run MTH, Lionel, Atlas etc locos. All work fine especially in conventional mode. DCS works fine but TMCC/Leagcy isn't so good. I have a number of sections with feeds - trial-and-error will tell you hoe many you need!

 

...

Go for it!

Hi Andrew.

You might be losing your "Earth Ground Reference" with TMCC/Legacy. If you drive a couple of ground stakes and run a ground wire (insulated) along the path of your layout, this should help. We actually had a similar problem on the club layout and had to strengthen the earth ground under the layout (we're in an old building that didn't have good grounding).

Hope this helps.

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