Outside Third Rail E6...?

Please post  photo of the bottom and the complete engine with boiler

Thank you

Cheers Carey

Hi Carey

Will do that tomorrow morning.

I figured you would be interested; can Dennis be far behind? 😊

Mark in Oregon

Here are some photos of the tender:

These trucks are very heavy...bronze(?)

Engine pics to follow...

Mark in Oregon

Here are some shots of the engine itself:

Front: (note lack of rivet detail...)

Side view(s). Note those large rivets are not embossed; they are "pins" of some sort...

I might mention the domes, stack, handrails etc., are all held in place with small screws and nuts (2-56(?) I think).

Chassis:

Trailing truck: rather rough casting.

Lemme know what you think. 

Mark in Oregon

Final photos, I promise! 

Comparing this to an All Nation Ten Wheeler, I'm wondering if this was built to 17/64" size...

Mark in (wet today) Oregon

@Strummer posted:

I'm gonna post this here, although I guess it is technically a 3 rail engine. Please move if necessary.

I picked this up for 25 bucks on eBay; I'm guessing it's a homemade job, as the "details" are rather crude (picture of boiler, cab and tender to follow).

After a little cleaning and oiling, it actually runs on blocks rather well; here is a lousy photo of the chassis:

The "reverse unit" looks a lot like what's on my Lionel Standard Gauge #10:

I might try to replace the outside rail pick ups with a center rail Lionel type, so I can use this on GarGraves track; dunno if there's any interest in this, but I thought I'd show you anyway...

Mark in Oregon

Nice Find

It might be 17/64 based on comparision with AN 10 wheeler.    The tender is not proportion right for a PRR E6 or other smaller PRR loco.   It is too long but the trucks are a representation of a common PRR truck.

The loco boiler and all looks well done.    However, the trailing truck does not look very detailed.

All in all a very interesting piece.   A new paint job would dress it  up nicely.

To me the motor looks like a Permag motor.    In that vintage a Series wound motor would be more common.    I wonder if the mechanism has been upgraded.    The wheels on the loco might be insulated even though it is set up for outside 3rd.    I would check that just 'cause.   

@Strummer posted:

It is a wound-field motor, the coils are plainly visible.

To my poor eyesight I guess, the big black blob on top looked like a permag.

A nice piece of history.

Thanks for the replies so far. I just never know if what I post will be of interest.

The drivers are uninsulated; I did check, just in case. As I mentioned, I'm hoping to swap the 3rd rail shoes for a center rail roller type; I can't imagine that would be very difficult.

The more I tinker with this, the better it runs; that Lionel-looking reverse "disc" functions nicely, which is kinda cool.

Will continue to "putter" and post updates...

Mark in Oregon

Very nice.  Quite a find.  I love restoring these old locos.  You should do some research on outside third rail locos in the forum.  There are some interesting posts.

@swrr posted:

Very nice.  Quite a find.  I love restoring these old locos.  You should do some research on outside third rail locos in the forum.  There are some interesting posts.

Oh believe me, I already have...and you're right; it's a whole 'nuther ballgame.

Am hoping Carey will chime in soon with his take.

Got the headlight working and am doing some repair work on the cab area...

Mark in Oregon

The outside third rail is a pretty nice design which IMHO looks much better than conventional 3 rail track.  I will definitely have it on my layout on one loop for some heavy electric locomotives.  

@swrr posted:

The outside third rail is a pretty nice design which IMHO looks much better than conventional 3 rail track.

I agree completely, but I'm not sure I'm capable of adding an outside rail to my current set up... plus I have enough "center rail" stuff to justify staying with the Gargraves track I'm currently using.🙂

My hope is to be able to remove the existing pickup and attach a center rail roller without too much modification; so that in the future I can put the original back on if needed. We'll see...

Mark in Oregon

Another question.

This old 7-pole motor seems to run pretty well, but every other open frame motor I've seen has gaps in between the poles; on this, those "gaps" appear to be solid:

Is this simply old brush material that has solidified, and if so, should I try to clear those gaps? Or should I just leave well enough alone?

Mark in Oregon

Thank you for posting more photos ..very interesting engine ...

Tender trucks look Alexander ..

Early / mid 30's ...not Icken , not Alexander , not Ken Henry , not Scale Model Railways ...so who ?

Many scratch builders ..add a few bought bits ..drivers , trucks etc .. build the rest ...

17/64ths was popular among several modelers ..

Very odd to  have Lionel manual reverse.....

Leave it outside 3rd ...

If you ever tire of it or wish to trade let me know

Cheers Carey

@Carey Williams posted:

Thank you for posting more photos ..very interesting engine ...

Tender trucks look Alexander ..

Early / mid 30's ...not Icken , not Alexander , not Ken Henry , not Scale Model Railways ...so who ?

Many scratch builders ..add a few bought bits ..drivers , trucks etc .. build the rest ...

17/64ths was popular among several modelers ..

Very odd to  have Lionel manual reverse.....

Leave it outside 3rd ...

If you ever tire of it or wish to trade let me know

Cheers Carey

Thanks for your input, Carey. I guess you know as much about these old things as anyone, so I appreciate  your time.

Given the rather thin metal construction, I am convinced that this is a home made, hand built example.

When I first got it, there was a large piece of tape wrapped around the engine; turns out the boiler/cab is held to the chassis only by 2 screws beneath the cab. No attachment on the front, through the cylinder saddle or anywhere!

The tape was used because one of the tabs holding everything together was intact, but broken. I tried to solder the pieces together, but the metal literally melted away. I fashioned a brass replacement piece, attached with JB Weld. Here's a picture of the underside of the boiler/cab; perhaps you can see the brass piece to the far right:

...at least the builder did an "enclosed boiler"... 

The smokebox front is held in place by small screws; removing it revealed the boiler "rivets" are actually the heads of some kind of tack; the sharp points are very obvious! Here's a close up of those rivets:

(You can see the headlight connection is similar to a Lionel Standard Gauge #33...)

I can post more pictures if there's any interest; just ask.

Mark in Oregon

Thank you for the additional photos .

Nice scratch built from the early period .

Cheers Carey

@Carey Williams posted:

Nice scratch built from the early period .

Cheers Carey

Thanks; guess I got lucky yet again.

Here it is next to a Lionel E6 (#28005):

... quite a bit bigger.

Mark in Oregon

I definitely like it!!  Think you should send it to me!!! lol

Perhaps offering an opinion beyond the frontier of my knowledge, but I would think that if the material between the commutator segments was brush carbon, that would conduct electricity and cause operational problems. Since you say it runs well, I'm guessing it is an insulator. I would leave well enough alone.