Packing fragile creations for shipping?

Don't EVER let the shipping companies pack anything you actually want to arrive intact, especially fragile items!  I get a lot of shipments, and some of the ones that come packed from shipping companies come in the largest boxes and are the most poorly packed!

The biggest issue I personally see in packaging is loose packing.  If an item can move in the packaging, it can beat itself to death during the trip!  That's also the primary sin I see in the shipping company packing, while the box is huge and the use of packing materials is generous, the frequent result is poor execution of the packing job and damage on the other end.

Even the most well packed items will not survive if the package arrives with tire marks on it. When I was working in a camera shop we had an expensive camera lens arrive that was oval shaped. It was supposed to be round.

@dkdkrd posted:

Forget costs for now.

Well, if you take costs out of the equation......hand deliver with all expenses paid

Do any of you simply take your treasure to a UPS Store, with packing experts (), and ask them to get it to the destination without damage??

Probably the best way for going straight to total disaster - they're clueless about what you are shipping and know nothing about it.

Or should one expect to pony up extra $$$ for insurance to cover what seems to be fairly expected damage.

I always insure stuff of any real value.

I've had structures, vehicles, dioramas, and the like show up almost back to 'kit form' in spite of our best efforts.

What tips can you offer?

#1 -- avoid selling large fragile items!

Custom wooden crates?  Triple boxing?  Pelletized foam filler?  Private jet with Uber delivery?

I've had engines delivered to me inside custom wooden crates, with a layer of bubble wrap around an inner card board box containing the bubble wrapped items -- key being that nothing could shift position.

Structures and dioramas  need to be glued down to a base that eliminates their moving in the container. Once immobilized, packing with bubble wrap, peanuts until nothing can move with you seal the box with more layers of card board surrounding the sides and top of the item and then more peanuts until nothing can move....

Then go out back, sacrifice a chicken, dance around the box widdershins in the nude painted blue.....that won't help, but you'll think it might not hurt while the neighbors call the police and you are taken away for a psychiatric evaluation

I typically use packaging peanuts and try to double box items when possible. The majority of the time they arrive in one piece. I don’t care what you do if a perfect package gets caught in a box jam on a high speed conveyor. I had one box that suffered that fate. It was a Korbut 3 stall round house. The 1/4 inch thick wood base was broken in half. After a little arguing I got a full refund. It pays to insure things.

When i built stuff for MTH i used to line the inside of the box with pink 2 in. foam and then what everyone else said, plenty of peanuts, its always a big gamble. Do not put fragile on the outside of the box...... field goal anyone.

@Alan Graziano posted:

It pays to insure things.

Yup!

When I build a project I try to make the delicate pieces so that they either snap or clip into place.  I bag them and place into their own little box with peanuts. The bigger parts are placed into separate boxes with peanuts then all boxes are placed into one large box with more more peanuts. This seems to work most of the time though there have been issues on occasion but 99% of the time a simple fix with super glue gel takes care of things.
I recently built a 8 inch diameter tank A. Grazino style (20 mil side walls). I had to glue everything onto it since having a customer try to snap gate valves into a 20 mil sheet would have been a disaster. Based on history I packed this structure differently. I placed the tank in a box a little bigger than the tank but made sure there was peanuts on all sides including the bottom. So it was 'floating' in the peanuts but it was not moving when I shook the box. I then double boxed it with more peanuts on all sides and shipped from AZ to TX. It arrived safely.
One thing I will never build and ship again is a hydrocal building as both times I tried, they arrived in pieces no glue could fix.

@mwb posted:

Structures and dioramas  need to be glued down to a base that eliminates their moving in the container. Once immobilized, packing with bubble wrap, peanuts until nothing can move with you seal the box with more layers of card board surrounding the sides and top of the item and then more peanuts until nothing can move....

Then go out back, sacrifice a chicken, dance around the box widdershins in the nude painted blue.....that won't help, but you'll think it might not hurt while the neighbors call the police and you are taken away for a psychiatric evaluation.

Yo, Martin...

Actually, already tried this...but chose deasil, rather than widdershins.  Didn't help either.  Maybe a less 'Smurfy' color of paint...once I'm back on the street again and the neighbors have moved.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

KD

BTW...Appreciate the help...really!

@dkdkrd posted:

...Do any of you simply take your treasure to a UPS Store, with packing experts (), and ask them to get it to the destination without damage??  Or should one expect to pony up extra $$$ for insurance to cover what seems to be fairly expected damage...

I could be wrong, but my understanding of the insurance process for items that are packed by the customer is that the shipper won't pay up unless there is external damage to the box.  Of course, even a properly-packed item can be damaged if it's handled roughly.

Although I concur with the observations about poor packing by places like the UPS store, perhaps that offers additional protection under their insurance.  Unfortunately, the real objective is to get the item to arrive safely.

I wrap the item in bubble wrap and poly foam.  Then I use the master carton box that high end computer motherboard boxes come in.  That box can weigh up to 5 lbs.  I cut one box up to make inserts that I glue inside the shipping box to restrain the cargo.   It can be very time consuming which is why I dislike selling online.  Never had a complaint but it takes time.  I also made several boxes like this to store my postwar accessories that did not have an OB.

The quality of cardboard is a huge factor as well.

when i ship fragile 3D items i make i custom laser cut a box that fits the items.

A fellow LVHR club member has a Coaster Dynamics Ferris Wheel that goes on his amusement park modules. These things are quite fragile and have to be handled with care. The box it came in left a lot to be desired. So I designed what you see in the pictures below. The sleeve folds up, cradles the accessory, and slides into the shipper. Never had any damage with all the shows we did with it. Of course, it was carefully packed in a truck that we drove. But the is no reason something like this could not be slid into a wooden packing crate.

Chris

LVHR

Nice Thread

Hi Alan, how's the car doing?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Don't EVER let the shipping companies pack anything you actually want to arrive intact, especially fragile items!

Interesting.  And yet...

With another York Meet about to commence, I'm reminded of the regularly stationed shipper at the entrance to Silver Hall who will, for those not having their own transportation, package your purchase(s) and accept first-born payment for prompt pick-up and posting of your precious piñata.  (Or are you supposed to pack it up yourself with their provided materials, thereby absolving them of responsibility??)  Of course, I never hear about the success rate for this service.  But, since they're always invited back, I guess the bell curve rings on, eh what?

We only used a local UPS Store pack-n-ship service (Now gone) once...and not for a hobby item.  It was a large framed print item sold on Ebay.   The 'Feedback' implied successful delivery.  A data point.

Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions.

BTW...Re "FRAGILE" labels...I agree: Doomed if you do, but d___d if you don't.  Truly worthless.

KD

I only go on my own personal experience receiving "professionally packed" packages by FedEx and UPS.  I don't know that USPS offers such a service, and I've never gotten anything "packed" by USPS.

The shipping companies seem really good at writing up what a good packing job looks like, they just can't seem to actually perform a good packing job.

I bought a custom done tall brick hotel (5 or 6 stories) on the bay several years back for my city on the Austin Trackers modular layout. I didn't realize it was made of hydrocal plaster similar to the Downtown Deco buildings. When it arrived the box made noise so I was concerned. When I open it the building looked like someone took a wrecking ball to it. Needless to say I  was very saddened to see this as was the seller. I got my money back and he said to toss the building. I still have it and plan on making a scene with it to look like it had just been torn down. Make lemonade out of lemons they say. Lesson learned for sure!

I always double box the shadow boxes and buildings. Each are wrapped in tissue paper and bubble wrap before being placed in the primary box. Voids are filled with bubble wrap or peanuts. The primary box is placed in a shipping box and surrounded with packing peanuts. Recently I have also added scrap 1/2" Gatorfoam board to add strength, either for a vulnerable side condition or for very large shadowboxes (24" ling and over"). I had one building damaged and couple of years ago and I had not double-boxed it.

For what its worth, my son works at a major shipper and sees damage all the time, mostly due to poor packaging. What I did not realize is the conveyor systems move up to 60 mph and they do get jam ups from time to time. That means either your package moving at 60 comes to a dead stop instantly or a 40 pound package comes crashing into your package which is minding its own business on a stopped conveyor.  The people loading the road truck are loading 400 to 500 boxes per hour per person - unloading is 1000. They don't have time to throw anything, but also I doubt anything experiences gentile handling. 

So far after shipping over 150 items, my buyers report no damage. Cars with original boxes seem to ship well. Other than that its bubble wrap and peanuts to help absorb impacts and making sure nothing moves around - needs to be tight. I have never had to double box anything that was not in its original box.  I recently shipped 30 pounds of Real Trax to the west coast. For that one we made 1/4 ply sheets to fit into the ends of the box and 2 sides to prevent punctures. We taped sections of track together to minimize movement and back filled with peanuts to prevent any movement. All external corners were reinforced to prevent any box splitting. Buyer reported it arrived safely no damage. 

My brother worked for UPS. At one of their major distribution points with those conveyor belts a box of frogs got caught on broke open. They had quite the night rounding things up.

@ScoutingDad posted:

Other than that its bubble wrap and peanuts to help absorb impacts and making sure nothing moves around - needs to be tight. I have never had to double box anything that was not in its original box.  I recently shipped 30 pounds of Real Trax to the west coast. For that one we made 1/4 ply sheets to fit into the ends of the box and 2 sides to prevent punctures.

I agree on both counts. An extra sheet of cardboard in the bottom as well as on top of the packing before the box panels are closed helps reinforce the split panels.

For items without the original box l cut pieces of foam to bridge the gaps between fragile details whenever possible. Then wrap in bubble wrap.

I shipped several unboxed Lionel steesided reefers from Chicago to California years ago.

I cut 1/2" foam pieces to fit between the underframe details, as well as on the car ends to protect the stirrups and ice hatches. Then wrapped each car in several layers of bubble wrap. Then wrapped them altogether as a single unit.

Lastly the extra cardboard layer for the bottom. A layer of packing peanuts on all sides and and extra layer of cardboard on top before closing the box.

The buyer was blown away. I explained to him that even though I'm parting with an item. I still would like it to be in the same condition it was in when I had it ,for the next owner.

I've shipped a lot of stuff so I am a bit wordy here.  You know what you don't see anymore when you ship stuff from places that handle things for UPS and FedEx?  The proper shipping document you would normally fill out at a real UPS of FedEx company shipping point.  If you read the fine print, it says clearly, use new boxes, use packing material that is a minimum of 4 inches on all sides of the item, that includes the bottom.  I'm adding in, double boxing is the only way to go too.  Amazing how many people ship stuff by putting the thing in the box, set it on the bottom and cover the other 5 sides with packing peanuts.  Do not use hard packing material like foam board, this has no shock/impact worth.  Packing peanuts, lots of bubble wrap, think along the lines of the outside box holds all the elements that softens the blow the inside box will endure.  Remember steel dashboards and then spongy ones?  They did that for the same reason.  Take pictures of everything, the item in the condition it is in, the packing of it, the packing of that into the box, the box on all sides.  This will expedite the shipment claims because if anything happens, your packing will be blamed and if you get your money back, it will be a chore to do so.  Insure it for its replacement value plus the shipping, and get things like the history of what it sold for on epay or  other venues.  I had FedEx destroy an item I sent, that was in its original foam cocoon, and they refunded the money for the item but kept the $35 too ship it. The pictures I had saved my derriere on that one.  Also, one plus to a pack and ship place if you use it, they are responsible for the packing, (if  a reputable firm) so if it is damaged, they will refund your money immediately and they will deal with the shipper to get their refund.  According to shippers, you would not believe the number of folks that send broken items to their relatives, and then claim the shipper broke it.  That is why the sender is the first suspect.  Speaking from experience here, how about a UPS package that arrived with a pair of dual wheel tire tracks imprinted on the cardboard , on my front porch?  And UPS had the gall to say I did it.  And yes, what was inside was flat, styrofoam and bubble wrap gets trumped by a couple tons of truck.

One other factoid about USPS and the word 'Fragile'. You can stick red fragile stickers all over a box, you can write it by hand, you can wrap it in paper that has lithographed fragile all over it, but until you tell the USPS person at the counter, and the box gets stamped with the 'official' USPS fragile stamp that has the word in outlined red letters, it is not considered fragile.

@CALNNC posted:

One other factoid about USPS and the word 'Fragile'. You can stick red fragile stickers all over a box, you can write it by hand, you can wrap it in paper that has lithographed fragile all over it, but until you tell the USPS person at the counter, and the box gets stamped with the 'official' USPS fragile stamp that has the word in outlined red letters, it is not considered fragile.

Can't say that we've encountered the same experience at our local postal depot.  Our own daily/weekly package volume precludes standing in line to be interrogated, pay, and/or be special stamped by someone at the counter (counter-intelligence?).  Pre-pay for individuals/businesses with simple drop off or pick-up is essential for many of us.

This USPS sticker/stamp IS available for zero cost (roll of 250), but is only to be used if paying a special handling fee...slightly above $12 for a common Priority package.  And that could perhaps be worth the extra cost, but we have no personal experiential data to support it....

The other must-pay we've learned to apply to this genre of packages is 'Customer Signature Required'...an adult, at time of delivery, home/business/postal depot.  You want your customer to see firsthand the package condition at the time of delivery.  And if there are any concerns about strange sounds from within (indicating possible damage) you want them to take a picture of the package condition.  Cost of this service for a single package is typically around $3-4...well worth it.

As others have indicated...and as most of us have experienced!...there is no perfect symbiosis here in I-pack + U-ship/deliver = Happy Customer.  All we can do is share experiences/techniques of what works best based on our own experiences.

Thanks for the input, all.

KD

Most shippers think FRA GILE means the item is ITALIAN.....

@lehighline posted:

A fellow LVHR club member has a Coaster Dynamics Ferris Wheel that goes on his amusement park modules. These things are quite fragile and have to be handled with care. The box it came in left a lot to be desired. So I designed what you see in the pictures below. The sleeve folds up, cradles the accessory, and slides into the shipper. Never had any damage with all the shows we did with it. Of course, it was carefully packed in a truck that we drove. But the is no reason something like this could not be slid into a wooden packing crate.

Chris

LVHR

In the years we moved all the items for the traveling show we hardly ever had anything trouble with anything. Occasionally there was something but we did okay. Especially when we were bringing stuff down from upstairs.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Don't EVER let the shipping companies pack anything you actually want to arrive intact, especially fragile items!  I get a lot of shipments, and some of the ones that come packed from shipping companies come in the largest boxes and are the most poorly packed!

The biggest issue I personally see in packaging is loose packing.  If an item can move in the packaging, it can beat itself to death during the trip!  That's also the primary sin I see in the shipping company packing, while the box is huge and the use of packing materials is generous, the frequent result is poor execution of the packing job and damage on the other end.

And I can vouch for that with freight cars! A former? Forumite sold me some Weaver PRR 3 bay hopper cars without boxes. When I got the shipment, all but two survived loose in peanuts. The damaged cars were damaged where you least expect which was the horizontal top and some vertical ribs. The stirrup steps miraculously survived!

Heres some delicate 3d printed cyclone filter items I received from da'bay that were delicate!

Notice cardboard stiffeners with foam padding then saranwrapped and as previously stated thrown in a bag with loose peanuts.