Percy Drive Axle Re-assembly Question

Hmmm... let's try again - does anyone have experience with any of Lionel's hollow axles with magnatraction, and could advise of any magnet orientation issues/precautions??

GeoPeg posted:

Hmmm... let's try again - does anyone have experience with any of Lionel's hollow axles with magnatraction, and could advise of any magnet orientation issues/precautions??

 

Forward the link to this thread to forum member Marty Fitzhenry. Advanced search and profile for his email. 

Thanks Carl, I just got through reading a thread on here regarding the fragile nature of the brass tubing axles, and Marty was in on the discussion !

How about it @Marty Fitzhenry and @GregR , do you know if the magnet orientation matters in these hollow brass tube axles?

Also, I'm thinking Loctite 680 where the axle end mates to the hollow tube, and Loctite 242 where the axle end mates with the wheel. Do you have any recommendations?

One more question, when the axle end separated from the hollow axle, only 1 magnet dropped out, and it's too short to reach both ends of the axles (both wheels), so should there have been a second magnet in there?

I typically try to ensure that all drive axles are oriented with the north magnetic pole in the same direction. There should be three or four of those loose magnet inserts in the hollow axle. If you only have one, the magnetic effect will be very limited. I would probably not even bother putting it back in.

Before you start using Loctite or other adhesives, you may want to try crimping the knurled ends of the axle fittings in an effort to get the parts to fit back together tight with a clamping/friction force. Loctite may not be a problem, but some adhesives that sheet out, like Superglue, will actually form a conduction barrier film, preventing reliable grounding of the locomotive. I learned this the hard way many years ago when I tried superglue on loose drivers only to discover it's insulating properties.

@GeoPeg I don't have an answer for you.  Subscribed to this thread, wondering whether the magnet is there for Magnetraction, or to hold the axle components together.  (Really surprised because I didn't think Thomas, Percy, James, etc. had Magnetraction!)  Kudos for taking a chance on this and sharing so that we all learn.  Can't wait to hear how this turns out!

Ted S posted:

@GeoPeg I don't have an answer for you.  Subscribed to this thread, wondering whether the magnet is there for Magnetraction, or to hold the axle components together.  (Really surprised because I didn't think Thomas, Percy, James, etc. had Magnetraction!)  Kudos for taking a chance on this and sharing so that we all learn.  Can't wait to hear how this turns out!

Ted, I can't speak for all versions of Thomas, James & Percy, but I can tell you my conventional only James has two traction tires and no magnetraction, LC Thomas has one traction tire and no magnetraction, and conventional only Percy has magnetraction and no traction tires. I don't think Lionel ever combined magnetraction with traction tires … but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. 

And yes, the magnets are definitely for magnetraction - they rely on friction fit parts to hold the wheels to the axles.

Latest progress on Percy – Since Percy was clearly missing some of his magnets, I looked around and lo and behold, I found some ¼” Neodymium disc magnets I had previously bought from either Lowe’s or Home Depot, with the intention of using them as chuff triggers. They looked perfect – a stack of 10 of them seemed to exactly fill out the empty length on the inside of the hollow axle (along with the original magnet slug), and they were certainly strong enough!

Much to my dismay they wouldn’t go more than about a ¼” into the hollow axle. It seems that my hollow brass axle was mushroomed out to 0.28”ID on each end for a distance of about a quarter inch due to the axle adapter having been pressed in. The rest of the axle interior measures about 0.23”ID. Brass gives it up easily!

I gave brief thought to drilling out the axle (all I have is a hand drill until after Christmas ), but after checking both my drill bit and the magnet diameters, I found that my drill bit was around 0.003” smaller than the magnets! So without a “fatter” drill bit or smaller magnets, it stopped right there. I thought about doing it anyway, and just using my press to shove the magnets all the way in, but then I remembered the mid-centered worm gear surrounds the axle, and realized I wouldn’t be able to press” my way past that without breaking something – magnets, most likely.

So I left all the magnets out (Percy does have a decent size lead weight) and added RED Loctite 271 to the larger diameter end of the axle adapter and pushed it into the hollow axle. I then added Blue Loctite 242 to the skinny end of the axle adapter where the wheel mounts, put the whole thing in my press, got it quartered, and shoved it home. I checked for wheel wobble immediately, knowing I had around 10 min for the Loctite to set up. That’s when I noticed the wheel on the other end could be “wobbled” by hand also. So 24 hrs from now when the Loctite on one end is fully cured, I will remove the opposite wheel and repeat this process.

Lessons learned so far:

1. Hollow brass tubes suck as an axle for those inclined to try their hand at repairing such things.
2. If I ever have to do this job again I will either replace the axle/gear/wheel assembly with a new one, or (assuming this experiment is successful) will automatically pull both wheels for gluing and re-pressing.
3. Thank goodness Lionel still offers the whole axle/wheel assembly for sale!

I suspect that the root cause of this failure may be that Percy was dropped or received a blow to his wheels. Even if it wasn't hard enough to instantly break something, the soft brass axle would bend on the ends providing the start of an eventual failure.

George

Final Update - I tried everything I could think of, including pulling both wheels off the drive axle, put them back on using Loctite 271, squared everything up, but it was all for naught - the brass tube axle is bent. Fortunately, Lionel had a new drive axle, complete with worm gear and green Percy drive wheels, so I bought one, put it in, and it now runs smooth as silk. Conclusion: the axle was bent, and when that happens to a brass tube axle, that's the end of it (for me.) It was not worth the effort, but I was doing it to learn,  so I have now learned not to do that again! 

Glad to have Percy added back to the livery

One last FYI, the new drive axle's magnetraction is identical to the old one. It appears they put only one tiny little itty-bitty magnet in the new axle (same as the old one) and it sucked over to the right wheel, and that wheel has the tiniest bit of magnetism, while the other wheel has none. What a plan that was!!!