Powerhouse vs Powermaster

Should be fine. You'll just get 135w max to the track instead of the 180w the Powerhouse can put out.  

Actually, the PowerHouse comes in 135W and 180W flavors.  The PowerMaster, TMCC or Legacy models, is not a transformer.  The PowerMaster is a command controlled AC voltage control box. It's used for running conventional equipment using a TMCC or Legacy system.

I think he gets that, I think the question is wondering if there is a condition where you can hurt the 135 PM by feeding it with the higher capability 180 PH.

What happens to the PM if there is a short on the track?  The Brick would trip, but at that point, might it have put more than the allowable current through the lower capacity PM?

I wouldn't advise it, though it probably will work.  The PH180 has a much better circuit breaker than the PH135, so it'll probably trip fast enough not to cook the PowerMaster.

Yeah, I was given (very generously) a Cab 1 remote and an old Powermaster just to get a train running.  I had to source my own power supply and naturally went too big.  But, I plan on upgrading to legacy at some point, so I'll be covered.  Sounds like I shouldn't melt what I have now, so I'll give it a try.  Thank you for all the info!

banjoflyer posted:

It's my experience that the Powermaster also would trip if there was a short so he should be OK...

The PM-1 PowerMaster will always trip before the PH-1 135 watt brick mechanical breaker. The PM-1 has a very fast electronic breaker, and will trip before the 10 amp capacity of the 180 brick is breached.

You could power that PM-1 with a 6,000 watt power supply, the trains will run fine and the PM-1 will be fine. It only uses the current it can pass.

I have been using the 135 W Powermaster 6-12867 since 2001, coupled to a PH-180 with no issues.   I was not aware that this Powermaster has an interal breaker  (it is not indicated in the manual either).  In the event of a short, the PH-180 breaker trips. 

Perhaps I have never exceeded the 135 W/7.5 A rating pf the Powermaster...

http://www.lionel.com/products...rmaster-135-6-12867/

-Jim

Jim Harrington posted:

... I was not aware that this Powermaster has an interal breaker  (it is not indicated in the manual either)...

From the manual, page 9.

I have never had a PH trip or a fuse blow, always get the green flashing light with a short. Reset is from the CAB-1.

Interesting... The documentation cited/referenced is different than what I have with my Powermaster (the link directs to a document dated 4/04); mine is earlier (REV A).

This is what came with my equipment:

Check page 16 and post that page.

ADCX Rob posted:

Check page 16 and post that page.

OK...

I scanned the entire document, and attached it here. 

Interesting how this pre-dates TMCC (no CAB-1 Base)   See p.18.

P. 16 references the PowerHouse circuit breaker; it also instructs how to reset the PowerMaster after a short circuit...

P. 17 references "...PowerMaster's short-circuit protection..."

P. 18 finally specifically states "...PowerMaster's circuit breaker."  

So I stand corrected.  Thanks Rob.

So now back to the OP's question...

Will the PowerMaster's circuit breaker trip at 7.5 amps/135 watts?  

I'm assuming I never had that great of a draw.

Thanks,

Jim

Jim Harrington posted:

So now back to the OP's question...

Will the PowerMaster's circuit breaker trip at 7.5 amps/135 watts?

Oh sure.  I have had big passenger trains with lots of bulbs that required two PowerMasters programmed to the same track number and connected in parallel to keep the PM from tripping. Short circuit protection kicks in at 15 amps.

So question:  I gather my 180 W powerhouse will work ok with my 135W legacy powermaster without damage? Notably,  I did find it interesting Lionel says on one of their youtube videos that you can use any transformer with adaper cable implying the use of a 135w brick not the only option and that the 180 w brick should be ok??.  2nd question can I address command engines with the powermaster in conventional mode? I ask because (call me conservative)  I use my TPC 300 (with Legacy connected via serial wires) and I typically keep track power below 18 volts running my command engines (to avoid bulb burn outs etc).  Can I do same with the powermaster? Stated another way, does the TMCC signal pass through the track if the powermaster is in conventional mode?

....since my command base is connected to the ground/track wire I think I answered my own question.  Just planning a new layout and not wanting to pull the TPC off old one, instead use a powermaster and powerhouse I picked up...

@DMBX posted:

So question:  I gather my 180 W powerhouse will work ok with my 135W legacy powermaster without damage? Notably,  I did find it interesting Lionel says on one of their youtube videos that you can use any transformer with adaper cable implying the use of a 135w brick not the only option and that the 180 w brick should be ok??.  2nd question can I address command engines with the powermaster in conventional mode? I ask because (call me conservative)  I use my TPC 300 (with Legacy connected via serial wires) and I typically keep track power below 18 volts running my command engines (to avoid bulb burn outs etc).  Can I do same with the powermaster? Stated another way, does the TMCC signal pass through the track if the powermaster is in conventional mode?

@DMBX,

Your PowerMaster is the controlling factor, not the PowerHouse.  Current being supplied to the locomotive gets pulled from the supply; it isn't pushed.  So you can't overload a PowerMaster from the power source, only via the load (whatever's on the track).  Thus the excess capability of the heftier supply (180 - 135 = 45), won't be fed to your PowerMaster, thus won't be used.  You'll get only what the PowerMaster is rated for (135), max.

Setting the switch on the PowerMaster to "Command" means that you can't use the TMCC signal to control the PowerMaster's output voltage (it will be fixed at whatever the input voltage is).  Setting it to "Conventional" allows you to vary it using TMCC input.  Either way the signal will still get to the track to operate your engines.

How?  The TMCC signal reaches the track via the antenna wire from the command base.  As a result it does not go through a PowerMaster, or a TPC for that matter.  It goes into a PowerMaster, but is out guaranteed to go out.  Therefore it's best when it finds it way around a PowerHouse-to-PowerMaster or -TPC combination, and goes directly to the track.

Mike

Ok thank you for clarifying, that was helpful.

I have tried it all out and works as you guys describe, thanks!. Pretty satisfied, the Legacy Powermaster is indeed an equal, if not better, to the TPC-300.