Prewar American Flyer K5 Pacific

The 561 is a model of the PRR K5 Pacific, not the K4. It was cataloged in 1940 and 1941. The 561 was replaced by the S gauge 310/312 in 1946. The risk in purchasing a prewar die cast engine is zinc rot. Some engines warp badly and can crumble into pieces, others can be fine. Parts for the engines are available from PortLines and Hennings Trains.

Okay, great. Thanks so much Tom.

@William B Davis posted:

I searched the forums here and searched elsewhere online and can’t seem to find any information about the Prewar American Flyer 561 K4 Pacific, such as what years were they made, and how are they to work on and get running  if it’s not right now? Never had an American Flyer engine before.

Not too bad to work on - the linkage is elaborate and fun to watch in action, there's lots of carcasses to harvest parts from, Zinc pest (Dorfan's Disease) shows up (tender and engine shells are victims, along with pilot/trailing truck wheels, but they're easier to source parts for compared to the 572 Challenger (Northern). There's been threads here about the prewar 3/16ths O gauge Gilbert Flyer locomotives - do a search for those, ask questions if you're not sure about reassembling things.

Great. Thanks!

@AmFlyer posted:

The 561 is a model of the PRR K5 Pacific, not the K4. It was cataloged in 1940 and 1941. The 561 was replaced by the S gauge 310/312 in 1946. The risk in purchasing a prewar die cast engine is zinc rot. Some engines warp badly and can crumble into pieces, others can be fine. Parts for the engines are available from PortLines and Hennings Trains.

Is this locomotive full O scale or is it S scale sized? Still confused about that.

The 561 is 1/64, S scale, with an O gauge wheel arrangement for 3 rail track.

My understanding is that AF produced the 3/16"(1:64) scale J3 Hudson, UP 4-8-4 and PRR K5 with O gauge running gear Pre-WWII. Marx did the same thing with their 3/16" equipment:  O Gauge/S Scale.

In addition to those engines Gilbert, beginning in 1941, made the 565 Atlantic which became the 300/302 S gauge Reading Atlantic in 1946, plus, beginning in 1940 the 556 Royal Blue which was used to create three S gauge engines. The 350 S gauge Royal Blue in 1948, the 353 Circus engine in 1950 and the 356 Silver Bullet in 1953.

I've looked at the American Flyer 561 K4 and 570 Hudson a bunch of times at train meets.   With motors similar to Lionel's Berkshire and 18:1 worm gear drive, you would think that these would be among the smoothest, slowest-running locos for layouts with sharp curves.  Unfortunately, many examples are plagued by zinc pest, especially the lead and trailing trucks, tender bodies, etc. 

I found what I thought was a clean motor in the White hall at York last October.  But when I took it to the test track, it hopped and jerked along.  I don't need anymore projects, so I took it back to the seller and went home with most of my curiosity intact.

Prices aren't insane (at least compared to 1940s Lionel like the 227 switcher, 1946 Berkshire, etc.)  Maybe there are operational issues, or just a lack of interest from the orange and blue crowd...?  Good discussion topic!

Gilbert also made the 574 Nickel Plate Road 0-8-0 (the rarest of the prewar 3/16ths O gauge models, I doubt there are any completely intact with all original factory parts in running condition models in existence), Gilbert must have swept up the floor and remelted the zinc for the 574. They also made the 545 Pennsy Atlantic using the 561 K-5 shell (this model is the least attractive 3/16ths O gauge model Flyer made - the mechanism has a huge gap between the drivers).

As far as running quality goes, they do not coast due to the worm gear drive (Gilbert did make spur gear versions of the Hudson and Challenger (Northern) - you do get some coasting action with those particular models).