Problem with Girard passenger cars

Check the gauge of each pair of wheels on each truck. Sounds they are on the high side of spacing and compare the numbers with the 385T tender. They should be identical or very close.

Ron M

Um.... I don't know how to do that...a bit of a novice here...the wheels bind even of i roll just the passenger cars without hoking it up to the train.  I did it with each car seperatley with the same results. 

Thanks,

Sunrise

Fast and easy, but not precise, but good enough for comparison purposes.

Slide the a pair of wheels in as close as they can get. Measure the distance from the backside-backside. Record that measurement. You'll end up with 18 readings for the cars.  Now do the same for the tender and you'll have another six readings. Now compare the cars to the tender and dollars to doughnuts I suspect the car readings will be bigger.

Ron M

ron,

I measured one car and the difference between the car and the tender is 2/16th of an inch difference.  The car has the larger width.  Could this be the problem?

Thanks!

Sunrise

Altho these are an old issue, I suggest that you contact MTH about these misgauged trucks.

You could ask if you could send the defective ones in for replacement.

Ron M

Ron,

Is this pretty common with tinplate trucks?

Thanks,

Sunrise

Hi Sunrise,

This is a problem with the Stephen Girard cars.  Both my Pennsylvania and Lehigh Valley sets had the same problem.  When they were manufactured, many of those sets had axles which were too long by 1 - 2 16ths of an inch causing the binding issue you describe.  The trucks themselves are fine.  I ended up getting axle replacements from MTH and returned the long ones.  It is possible to remove all of the axles and grind them down to the correct size.  

These are the only tinplate cars I've purchased with this problem.

Good Luck,

David

Sunrise, without seeing the trucks it's hard to say what's happening with yours.  As you know, tinplate is a bit casual, to put it mildly, as regards tolerances and precision. You may just have to play around with these a bit and tweak things here and there.

First thing to check is whether the axles are in the correct holes in the trucks.  Sometimes in shipping and handling, the ends of the axles can pop out of the hole in the side of the truck and get jammed somewhere else on the truck.  

After being sure all the axles are in the holes in the trucks (the hole behind the decorative journal), you next want to check that the sides of the trucks themselves are straight and not bent inwards and binding on the wheels.  If they are bent, then the trucks can be tweaked outwards a little so the wheel turns freely.  When you hold the car upside down, all the axles and all the wheels should spin easily in your fingers. 

The next thing to check is the distance between the wheel flanges, the gauge of the wheels as ron is saying.  With the ends of the axles in the holes in the truck, the wheels are held from spreading wider by the truck, and they are held from getting narrower by the crimp in the axle just inside each wheel.  The wheels should have a little play back and forth, but not too much.  Standard gauge track is 2-1/8" between the rails, so your wheels should be about 2" apart, measured from the outside of one flange to the outside of the opposite wheel's flange.  

If the wheels spread apart too much, the truck can be tweaked inwards a little to keep the wheel from moving outwards.  If your wheels are too close together, they can be spaced further apart by placing washers on the axle, inside the wheel but outside the crimp in the axle.  Some cars come from MTH with these washers in place already. 

I find that this is fairly normal on new tinplate.  There is usually some curve or some switch on the layout where the car will derail until the wheel spacing is fine tuned.  Few run perfectly right out iof the box. When you look at the way these are made, you realize why this is so:  it's tinplate!

All,

Once again you guys have set me straight. Thanks a bunch! Ill call MTH on monday and see what they'll do for me.  Thanks again!

Sunrise

Called MTH and talked to a repair technician.  Told me "to make sure there weren't two washers on the inside of the wheel". I told him negative.  He then told me "to make sure that the cars weren't to large for my curves".  I told him negative. I explained that all the car axles are 2/16 inch out of gauge.  He then told me he didn't know what to tell me.   I then talked with the customer service rep and told him that the answer I received from the repair tech was unsat. (I forgot to mention that I called yesterday and was told to call back today because I needed to speak with a repair technician because he couldn't help me.) I explained that this situation wasn't a warranty issue rather a design flaw.  He gave me an RA and said "ship them and we'll take a look to diagnose the problem" at my expense.  I explained that this is a known issue with some girard car productions (see earlier reply by Cotton Belt in this post).  I then explained shipping this huge box will cost me an arm and a leg. I was then told "sorry that you're disappointed".  Really?  I felt like I was dealing with folks that had absolutely no intention of helping me or didn't have the knowledge to do so.  I'm so annoyed and just can't believe how ridiculous my experience was today.  I was waiting for that guy from candid camera to pop out and inform me that "You're on candid camera". Why the heck should I drop over a thousand dollars on my 2012 tinplate preorders knowing that this is the support I'll receive? Perhaps my venture into standard gauge MTH reproductions is short lived. Anyone want to buy some Girard cars that need new wheels?

Sunrise

Sunrise, try this:

take a random sampling of several standard gauge cars, preferably from different manufacturers, vintage and reproduction.  place them on a straight section of track.  grab each car and try to slide it (gently) sideways, back and forth.  not lengthwise so it rolls on the track, but sideways, cross track.   as you do so, get your eyes down on wheel level and watch the trucks and wheels.  

you will find that some cars will fit tightly with their wheel flanges between the rails and slide sideways hardly at all.  others will slide back and forth 1/4 inch or more - their wheels may come close to coming off the inside of the rail.

this is normal.  these are tinplate toys, and the manufacturing tolerances are just not that close.   a sixteenth of an inch one way or another is well within tolerances.  which is why the MTH rep was trying to be polite, but there really wasn't much he could say.

the trucks are made out of thin sheet metal that bends in your fingers.  if the axles appear to be "too long" and are binding, just spread the trucks a bit with your fingers.  you will be surprised how easy this is, you may easily overdo it and have to bend them back.  if the axles are "too short" and fall out of the trucks, squeeze the trucks so they bend inwards a little, and pop the axles back in.

as with the "rookie question" tinplate thread,  the relevant answer here is "slop".  tinplate toys are just not made that exact.  wheels, trucks, couplers, all flop around.  there are no bearings, just oversize slots and holes.  if things aren't running right, the fun is in diagnosing just what the issue is, and tweaking things a little, sometimes just with your fingers, sometimes with a pair of pliers.

this is normal.  tinplaters have been doing it since around 1910.