Purpose of Lionel Lionchief 72-watt power supply (4 amp)

It's not for larger layouts or to help with power drop-outs, but to be able to run more equipment, within a given power district(same track), at the same time, than the standard 2 amp supply.

 

For example, if you hadn't felt the need to wait, you could have powered your layout with the 5 amp CW-80 for more capacity.

Thanks Rob for following up. If  I understand you correctly, with the 72 watt 4 amp , I will be able to add more operational accessories, etc.  I had assumed that the power drop outs were result of adding too many accessories for the 2 watt unit that came with my LionChief. If  I kept adding track and accessories with the original 2 watt supply, wouldn't power drop offs be the result? I'm sure I'm missing something. Still a lot to learn on the issue of power.

Thanks again Rob.

Accessories will put more load on the power supply, but track will not.

 

That 2 amp power supply will theoretically power hundreds of miles of track as long as you have proper power drops every several track sections to overcome the losses at the track joints(which is why you are having "power decrease at certain points along the Fastrack").

 

Each full section of FasTrack(and many other lengths/types) have the connectors on the bottom to connect .110 quick disconnect "spade connectors" for just such purposes.

Yep,  I used the spade connector to power a lighted gatehouse. Running the 2 wires from the gatehouse to the underside of Fastrack. I understand  I would use same concept for power drops. What I am puzzled about is running the 2 wires from spade connect to a transformer.  I believe the CX 80 only has 2 posts for wiring track. So if  I ran the 2 wires from spade connect on one piece of Fastrack to the 2 post on CX 80,  I have added a power drop to one piece of track. With CX 80 only having the two posts wouldn't I be limited as to how many power drops I could add using the CX 80 ??

Appreciate your guidance.

There is no limit to the number of power drops you can add.

 

When it gets too crowded at the transformer binding posts, you switch to using terminal blocks for multiple connections(this is a MTH unit - there are many types available):

 

I believe I'm getting the picture.  I would run wire from the red and black posts to the binding posts on the CX 80, then run (in the case of the pictured model) wire from the 12 screw posts to potentially 12 power drops on the Fastrack? Using different lengths of wire to run up through holes drilled in my setup plywood, to spade connectors on underside of several pieces of Fastrack to get the needed power drops?

That is generally correct.

 

When you get to a certain size of layout, you will actually want to run a set of heavy gauge(16-14) bus wires around the layout to provide easy access points to tap into for feeders.

Great information! I will begin with the terminal blocks and go ahead and purchase CX 80. Suggestion on gauge of wire to run from CX 80 to the red and black posts and the gauge to run from screw post to the spade connector on Fastrack ??  At this point  I have a fig. 8 with 1 siding and lighted bumper.  I would like to add oval around the fig 8. Still researching how much/types of track to put an oval around the fig. 8. I'll check in as I make progress. Rob thanks for your patience.

Best,

O.C.

You can use the Banana jacks to connect to the terminal block, there are so many ways to do this, but use the largest manageable wire you can for the least voltage drop.

 

The shorter runs/feeders don't need wire as large as your bus wire. For FasTrack, use the largest wire you can solder or crimp into your .110 connectors(most of these are 22-24 gauge, but there are some larger).

The Banana jacks from the CX 80 to the terminal block. Then the 22-24 ga. from the terminal block screw posts to the spade connector on underside of FasTrack ?

Not exactly sure what the difference is btwn the bus wire and feeders. Do the feeders run from one piece of FasTrack to another piece of FasTrack kind of like a daisy chain or do they originate from a separate transformer?   I can say that what you have provided is the clearest information that has made the most sense to me since I picked up the hobby again after many years.

Old C,
I have some questions. How big a layout are you looking to make? Are you doing more than 1 loop? Are you using turnouts? Are you using more than 1 loco?
Following the thread, I'm guessing1 loop, 1 loco, maybe some turnouts, 6 by 12 tops.
From that guess, you were right on earlier with your interpretation that you run a wire from the transformer to the distribution block (for ease, I use the MTH blocks, as I only need 2. They are more expensive than some other solutions, but I like that they just make wire organization easier.). I run 14 gauge speaker wire to the blocks. I also run 14 gauge speaker wire to my lock on points, because it fits and like Rob said, higher gauge, less voltage drop. You will be fine, if you centralize the distribution block and add smaller gauge drops, depending on what the spade connectors on the fast track will accept.

Stepping back. If my assumption on size is correct, you won't need more than 2 or 3 drops. Your power issues are most likely all related to accessory draw on the small supply, dirty track, or connectivity between track pieces. As fast track is so good, I don't suspect you have many, if any connectivity issues. Cleaning you can check. Accessory draw will be solved when you have enough amps.
One last bit. I run the Lionchief Polar Express. It slows down, in spots, because the engine is working through curves, not because of power. I only add this as something to consider.

Old C,
I have some questions. How big a layout are you looking to make? Are you doing more than 1 loop? Are you using turnouts? Are you using more than 1 loco?
Following the thread, I'm guessing1 loop, 1 loco, maybe some turnouts, 6 by 12 tops.
From that guess, you were right on earlier with your interpretation that you run a "bus"  wire from the transformer to the distribution block (for ease, I use the MTH blocks, as I only need 2. They are more expensive than some other solutions, but I like that they just make wire organization easier.). I run 14 gauge speaker wire to the blocks. I also run 14 gauge speaker wire to my lock on points, because it fits and like Rob said, higher gauge, less voltage drop. You will be fine, if you centralize the distribution block and add smaller gauge drops, depending on what the spade connectors on the fast track will accept.

Stepping back. If my assumption on size is correct, you won't need more than 2 or 3 drops. Your power issues are most likely all related to accessory draw on the small supply, dirty track, or connectivity between track pieces. As fast track is so good, I don't suspect you have many, if any connectivity issues. Cleaning you can check. Accessory draw will be solved when you have enough amps.
One last bit. I run the Lionchief Polar Express. It slows down, in spots, because the engine is working through curves, not because of power. I only add this as something to consider.

Old C,
I have some questions. How big a layout are you looking to make? Are you doing more than 1 loop? Are you using turnouts? Are you using more than 1 loco?
Following the thread, I'm guessing1 loop, 1 loco, maybe some turnouts, 6 by 12 tops.
From that guess, you were right on earlier with your interpretation that you run a "bus"  wire from the transformer to the distribution block (for ease, I use the MTH blocks, as I only need 2. They are more expensive than some other solutions, but I like that they just make wire organization easier.). I run 14 gauge speaker wire to the blocks. I also run 14 gauge speaker wire "feeders" to my lock on points, because it fits and like Rob said, higher gauge, less voltage drop.  You will be fine, if you centralize the distribution block and add smaller gauge drops, depending on what the spade connectors on the fast track will accept. The other scenario Rob described was running a bus wire around the perimeter and tapping in short feeder wires here and there. That, I think, is more for simifying the wiring on larger layouts. Imagine the mess, the other way, if you had multiple loops. On a smaller layout though, you can always add a drop  from the terminal block later without making too much more spaghetti. If you have turnouts, I'd run drops to both sides.

Stepping back. If my assumption on size is correct, you won't need more than 2 or 3 drops. Your power issues are most likely all related to accessory draw on the small supply, dirty track, or connectivity between track pieces. As fast track is so good, I don't suspect you have many, if any connectivity issues. Cleaning you can check. Accessory draw will be solved when you have enough amps.
One last bit. I run the Lionchief Polar Express. It slows down, in spots, because the engine is working through curves, not because of power. I only add this as something to consider.

Marty,

I have a fig. 8 with one siding ending in lighted bumper. I would like to make an oval around the fig. 8 soon. So,  I think you guessed about right. For the "drops"  I believe that is running , as you suggest- speaker wire from terminal block's (12) screw posts to spade connector on underside of Fastrack. With the MTH I could run, theoretically 12 drops.  I know  I wouldn't need that many. Are the "feeders" the wire that runs in daisy chain fashion from FasTrack to FasTrack or are "feeders" the wires that run from the terminal block to several pieces of Fastrack ? If that is the case, with the MTH, I would have 9 open screw posts if  I only used max of 3 "feeders"? By turnouts, do you mean the sidings that run to bumpers or are turnouts the right or left switches that allow the locomotive to enter another track pattern(for example, a turnout from my fig. 8, allowing train to enter an oval ?  As  I told Rob,  I appreciate your patience in just helping me get the definitions/terms right in my head. Thanks very much for your assistance .

O.C.

 

For the "drops"  I believe that is running , as you suggest- speaker wire from terminal block's (12) screw posts to spade connector on underside of Fastrack. With the MTH I could run, theoretically 12 drops.  I know  I wouldn't need that many. Are the "feeders" the wire that runs in daisy chain fashion from FasTrack to FasTrack or are "feeders" the wires that run from the terminal block to several pieces of Fastrack ? If that is the case, with the MTH, I would have 9 open screw posts if  I only used max of 3 "feeders"? By turnouts, do you mean the sidings that run to bumpers or are turnouts the right or left switches that allow the locomotive to enter another track pattern(for example, a turnout from my fig. 8, allowing train to enter an oval ?

 

The banana plugs are a universal, albeit archaic, method to make electrical connections, and it is odd that the CW-80 has 5 way banana jacks on them(I think MTH started it, though) but they do plug straight into the centers of the posts on both the CW-80 and the MTH terminal block.

The 36 watt power supply is really only enough to run the engine and about three maybe four light up coaches, add a lighted bumper and a few more things here and there and it gets over worked. Though since the lionchief 72 is DC it should leave you with less flicker, some can some can not see from LED's and a fewer parts to buy.

For the "drops"  I believe that is running , as you suggest- speaker wire from terminal block's (12) screw posts to spade connector on underside of Fastrack. With the MTH I could run, theoretically 12 drops.  I know  I wouldn't need that many. Are the "feeders" the wire that runs in daisy chain fashion from FasTrack to FasTrack or are "feeders" the wires that run from the terminal block to several pieces of Fastrack ? If that is the case, with the MTH, I would have 9 open screw posts if  I only used max of 3 "feeders"? By turnouts, do you mean the sidings that run to bumpers or are turnouts the right or left switches that allow the locomotive to enter another track pattern(for example, a turnout from my fig. 8, allowing train to enter an oval ?

 Switches.

I will run 20 ga. stranded wire from the terminal MTH terminal block screw posts to the spade connectors on the underside of FasTrack., just need to ensure i connect the grnd/hot to the correct spade slots underneath the FasTrack. I'm thinking with my fig. 8 and outer connected oval, perhaps 1 power drop would be enough. I'll use the LionChief 72wt to give the accessories a bit more juice. Use CW 80 for power drop. Am I missing anyhing ?

Happy New Year !! Thx for helping boost my learning curve.

Don't connect both power supplies to the track at the same time.

Since I can only run my power drop from a transformer(and not from the LionChief 72 wt), like CW 80, I guess  I could power accessories from the screw posts on the MTH terminal block. Perhaps there is no need for the LC 72 wt? I thought someone had said, that it could be used  to give accessories a bit more "oomph."  Of course now Lionel is offering sometimes in Feb. the PlugnPlay accessories which plug directly into a FasTrack track with 1 or 4 lock on ports.