Question on constructing a 2-level layout

Clearance and upper level supports come to mind first and an issue with multi-level layouts.

Murphy's Law implies you will have to reach to the furthest area on the low level for some unexpected reason. I am thinking that at least 12" between the two levels.

Supporting the upper level(switching layout) artfully is a challenge. You don't want to block to primary viewing area. Supports that are visible will need to look like concrete or steel.

The layout height. If you set the switching at 44"-ish, then the lower level will be best viewed when seated at 32".

The 36" width of the top level will restrict the track plan options. A twice around with only a crossover would be reliable (Murphy's Law) but would need more width.

Initial ramblings complete.

Along with supports what about the wiring of the second level? How will you hide the wires?  You could use some small pipe to put the wires in and paint the pipe to the color you want.

Another problem with supports is; will the train on the other level hit my support?

I have a T-1 4-8-4 steam engine and the tender hit the supports because the steps on the tender stick out about a quarter inch more then I had counted on. 

Also with two or more tracks running parallel is do the engines have enough clearance so as not to hit when passing on curve sections?

Lee Fritz

"Initial ramblings complete"  LOL

Thanks for the responses.  What I’ve learned so far is:

1-Both levels have to be constructed at the same time.  Constructing a second level afterwards is not recommended.

2-Height between levels.  I was thinking just enough to be an inch higher than the top of the subway car, but that will be too low.

3-As much as I would like to have a lower level, I might have to widen the layout to 4 feet and move it from the wall (not ideal) to include an elevated run far enough from the front accessories so as not to hide them, or

4-Just skip the idea altogether and stick with the continuous running idea on the floor.  Maybe I could build a 1x5 foot diorama of a subway station with buildings and a road above it and just place it on the floor.

Things to think about.

BTW Lee, I would only be running a subway on a single track, so the clearance issues with another train on the curve won’t be an issue.

A FasTrack loop using 031 on the bottom would fit nicely on the 36" wide table. Atlas only makes 027 or 036.

Secondary ramblings complete

Thanks Carl.

No, I wasn't planning on giving up already.  Its just that I want to get my trains running and not just sitting on the table(s) with no actual layout as its been for a while with ak.  Probably will buy a used copy of the Multi-Deck Layout and start reading and researching (again).

On the track choice, I was planning on mating the Atlas O straights with O31 tubular on the curves.  Saw that done on Hollow Core Door Layout by "Dave the O Gauge Guy" in one of the first OGR issues that I purchased when I got back in the hobby a few years back.  In one of those issues back then also Jim Policastro did the same thing in a Coal Mining layout.

You could build the switching layout and later set it on top of the trolley.

Forgot about the Tubular 031 transitioning to Atlas.

I don't think that book will help. I have looked at previews(you can see a lot). More about cutting elevated roadbed and such.

You just need two decks. Can you do the offset by six inches and fit 42" wide in your space?

The huge Lionel New York showroom display had only the station and stop exposed for a passenger train. Others have used the technique of exposing a lower level train in one or two places.

Eric's Trains latest video on a complete layout tour had a subway area built under the layout that he never used. You see it while he is showing the wiring.

We have a multi-deck layout that we are working on for a restoration. When the scenery is on it, the train is only briefly exposed on two of the three layers.

Build the switcher and run some trains!

Here's a reconstruction of the NY Showroom layout. At 12 seconds in you can see the lower level station stop exposed.

This is what I have so far.  With the O-31 curves I will have to have a 42-inch minimum width.  That is still better than 48 inches, and as you mentioned above maybe put the layout on casters.  I’m not worried about the tracks not matching at this stage of my sketches, because the beauty of tubular track is that I can easily work on get the exact custom size needed (2.27 inches compared to 2.30 inches, etc.).  I have a 60-inch by 2-inch long platform that should cover the length of any a 4-car train

Regarding the track radius, I’m hoping that the O-31 radius should be sufficient.  I know that the MTH subway trains will all work on O-31 minimum radius, but for example the Lionel website gives different minimum radii for the same train. The MTA M-7’s (that I have a 2-car pair) are listed as both O-27 (Metro North/Candy Cane) and O-36 (LIRR/Batman), so go figure.

Here are a couple of cross sections that I drew up on Excel.  Is this what you meant by off setting the lower level Carl?  I’ve designed it with a 6-inch separation between the levels which provides a 1.5± inch clearance over the roof of my M7’s that I’ve measured at 3.75 inches high (total of 4.5 inches standing on the track) and 2.5 inches wide.

Kevin,

Is the proposed upper level to be completely seperate from the lower level and elevated at the same height above the lower track? Are you going to only run subway( third rail) cars on the lower level or transit cars with pantographs? Elevated track grade for continuous track should be 2 to 3 percent, I kept mine between  2 to 2.5 percent, the clearence height of the elevated track above the lower track and grade percent can create lengthly grade rise and descent lengths when added to the level running track length on the elevated track section this may be a deterrent  in the alloted space for the layout.

You are asking correct questions in the conceptual design of your layout, speaking from experience, I had to modify my conceptual design because of space restraints as the layout is being built.

John,

The two levels are completely separate and there will be no connection between the two.  Upper level is a switching layout with operating accessories. 

The lower level is a 3rd rail subway (for childhood memories) that I've decided I want to add to the layout know that I'm finally going to build one.

Kevin,

That works. (2nd drawing) I was thinking of keeping to 36" inch wide tables, leaving an over hang on the rear (top) and an underhang on the front. Your 42" wide single piece for the bottom allowed you the room for a twice around.

I am just a little concerned about making the clearance that exact. You just need to think through accessing the train. 6" doesn't give your arm much maneuvering space.

You could cut 1" dowels for pillars\column look to support the top.

Your on the path now. I know you'll work out the details. 

Anyway, build the switcher and then it can just be put on top of the subway when you can do that one.