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I'm curious about how people run wires from their track blocks to their control panel and back, this is for 3Rail O gauge track.

 

I am basing my question on a conventional layout, using the preferred method of main busses, in which the bus wires run parallel to the track with feeders up to the track. 

 

Now, if I have a power district (block) at the far end of my layout that I want controlled by a toggle placed on my control panel, does that mean I have to string a long wire allllllllll the way back from the far end of the layout to my control panel and into the toggle, then allllllllll the way back from the toggle to the track?  Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the main bus if there are going to be streams of wires going back and forth?  There must be something missing and I'm just not seeing it. 

 

It seems that to make more sense instead of having two main busses, to run a main bus for the common (outside) rail, then wire the hot (middle) rail into one of those euro style terminal strips and have wires for each block go directly to toggles on the control panel and then spiderweb out to the blocks on the layout.  That would eliminate a "main bus" for the middle rail, but it would halve the amount of wiring since I wouldn't have to string stuff back and forth.  Is this complicating things?  Again, I feel like there is something I'm missing.  Please, anyone with experience help me out. 

 

I know a solution is to have the toggle switch placed on the fascia close to the actual block, but my question is specifically for the situation of having the toggles consolidated onto a control panel.

 

Thanks!

Dominic Miele

Last edited by DomMiele
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Hmm, maybe I can answer my own question but i'd still like some experienced insight.  Now, considering that my layout is going to have certain portions of run that will not need to be separate blocks, I assume the main bus for the middle rail can be run and feeders put to those areas.  Leaving only those specific blocks needed separate power control, such as sidings, and on those the main wires would go from the terminal strip direct to the control panel and then across to the block. 

 

Did I just have an "Ah-Hah!" moment?

Dale, I've been studying your sight for a while, you may recognize me as this is not the first time you've given me some insight.  I was reading one of your earlier postings where you described your preference for using relays, comparing it to an antique car (if you replace the engine with modern equipment, is it really the same vehicle anymore?)  Now I don't have the same electrical background as you, but I share the same sensibilities, and even with all the bells and whistles of the digital stuff, I just like the idea of relays and toggles and spdt or spst switches, etc.
 
Please forgive me for needing my hand held through this process, but I want to make sure I understand completely.  With the set up you show, where the relays can be mounted anywhere without having to be near the control panel for instance, I could conceivably mount a relay under the layout on the far end, then run 22gauge wire to the switch on the control panel and back to the relay, saving money I assume since the 22gauge should be a bit cheaper.  The heavier gauge bus wire, say 14 or 16 gauge, would run through the relay and up to the track, in whatever configuration necessary for a particular desired result.  Is that correct?
 
Originally Posted by Dale H:

I use relays,described in this shown in this  

 

LINK

 

Dale H

 

Last edited by DomMiele
Originally Posted by DomMiele:
...where the relays can be mounted anywhere without having to be near the control panel for instance, I could conceivably mount a relay under the layout on the far end, then run 22gauge wire to the switch on the control panel and back to the relay, saving money I assume since the 22gauge should be a bit cheaper...

 

Taking this to the extreme, you can even go to infinitely-thin control wires (i.e. wireless).  For less than $10 on eBay shipped, you can get wireless transmitter-receiver sets with 10 Amp relays. 

 

ddaaa-2

Similar relay modules without wireless capability are about $2 per relay module shipped.  The nice thing about these eBay relay modules is they have the screw-terminals, mounting holes, etc.

 

ogr 12v relay screw terminals

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  • ddaaa-2
  • ogr 12v relay screw terminals

I used to do traditional block wiring, before any consideration of command control.  I would determine which blocks where controlled by which transformer post / handle.  Usually, the transformer is close to the control panel, allowing a large wire from the transformer + post to the panel and then shorter smaller wires to the supply side of each toggle switch/block.  A single wire is run from the load side of the toggle to the block track (possibly split near the track for multiple connections).  In this way all blocks operate independently and there is no "out and back" wire and minimum wire is needed.  Relays are not needed in this approach, unless you want to set up automatic train control or signalling.

I stumbled across a 12 channel remote on eBay for $20, it has 10A relays for each channel.  It is also programmable for a pulse, toggle, or momentary while you hold the button.

 

12 Channel Remote Control

 

If you want to control a bunch of stuff with a simple remote, I don't think it gets any cheaper than this.

 

 

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn
Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

I stumbled across a 12 channel remote on eBay for $20, it has 10A relays for each channel.  It is also programmable for a pulse, toggle, or momentary while you hold the button.

Nice find! That's an amazing value illustrating an alternative school of thought for block wiring - that is, silicon vs. copper. 

 

Copper prices since 2000 have varied by a factor of about 8. OTOH the price of electronics, wireless gadgets, even relays, etc. has steadily fallen.  We may have reached the crossover point where from a cost standpoint it's cheaper to use relays whether wireless or with thinner control cabling than running 14-16 AWG cables for larger layouts! 

 

Another advantage of relays is the control panel switches (whether going wireless or wired) carry much less current so they too are less expensive, with more options/styles to choose from, and in some cases easier to connect since the wires are smaller gauge.

 

Reminds me of those stories you'd read about a few years ago when copper prices peaked - thieves breaking into homes and yanking the copper wiring out of walls.  I'm imagining an editorial cartoon with thieves breaking into some guys train room making off with all the bus wiring but leaving the trains behind

Dominic:

Like Dale I use a SPST switch on a control board to power a block. You do not need to run both power and ground from the switch to the block track. I connect track ground to a convenient ground terminal nearby but I have no choice in the running the power wire. Typically one would run a wire from the transformer / power terminal strips to the switch then from the switch to the track. In my case with the switch on a "under the bench" table I slid in and out. I have terminal strips near the back of the table. I connect transformer power and the wire from the track to the strip then in/out wires from the SPST switch to the strip with plenty of slack. This way when I slide the table it is only the wires from the SPST that are moving. 

since you use european terminals you may be interested in a product a customer turned me on to - ferrules - see photo below. You simply feed the wire into the metal barrel and using a crimper made for this purpose crimp the barrel. The ferrule then can be screwed into the terminal w/o smashing wire.

Joe

 

FSD75-6-D by Panduit

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