Re-connecting 249/250 motor case

The problem with epoxy might be slight loss of electrical connection that used to be there.

 Let's see the drivers and second plate please. (and large, the viewer takes forever to work, I can download them faster. 

I'm thinking small countersunk head machine screws into the standoff to grab like the swedge. (assuming you can't swedge it anymore? ) Near wheels is more of a challenge. You should be able to use a counter sink there too, but your skill and small size machine screw are going to be more crtical to succeed 

A relief ground in the back of a driver might allow a new screw position to pull the halves together in the area near that standoff under the driver flange/gear; unless it is aleady cupped on the driver's backside.

To increase chances of re-swedging, file notcn edges to sharpen the taper so swedge can top them easy.

Everything in your picture looks to be 1970 MPC, 8040-100 motor.

Rob is right, you're working with the 1970s MPC version of the 249-100 motor.

Yours is disassembled far beyond what even a service station would do.  "Autopsy" is a good description!  There is no accepted way to reattach the plates, because it's not ever recommended to pry them apart.  You have a difficult job ahead of you to put it back together "square" and properly aligned.  Even after you've done so, you'll still have to install the axles and press the wheels back on, without bending the axles.  The odds of getting it running smoothly without wobble are slim.

Personally I would look for a working motor / chassis from a similar loco.  If you're lucky you might find a used one for about $20.  But if you're determined to reassemble the one you have, you might be able to ditch the spacers and use threaded stand-offs.  Hopefully they come in the exact size you need, because cutting them precisely would require machine tools.  See the photos below (originally shared on here by Forum member Chriss):

Good luck!

Thanks for the 'tapered holes' and 'threaded stand-off' suggestions.  I tapered all 4 holes using a Dremel conical grind stone instead of a file, and that worked for 3 of the 4 spacers.  One pesky connector got an attempted replacement with a threaded stand-off, but at that point I really couldn't countersink the holes so the screws were too proud for proper wheel operation.  So, I'm electing to try and put Humpty Dumpty back together sans one spacer.  It's a lower one down by a wheelset so I'm hopeful.  

Have to wait until spare parts arrive to see if it works - it was missing both brushes, the armature bearing plate, cluster gear and connecting gear between the drivers.  Once I know it's salvageable, I'll get the 2-position e-unit, two crossheads and the headlight lens and finish it up.

Thanks for all of the suggestions and comments.

If everything appears to be successful with marrying the two plates, that would be a good place to stop and assemble the motor, sans brushes. By doing so, you can spin the armature to check for proper alignment, i.e. the plates not only need to be parallel, but they must allow a straight shaft like your armature to seat squarely (or in this case, perpendicular) to the brush plate on one side, and the armature bearing on the other. 

Put it together, then spin the armature with your finger. If there's ANY resistance, move the plates in relation to each other until the resistance disappears, then swage/glue/screw to hold it into that position. I could see a drill press style bench vise being very handy for this part of your task.

Really you need to insert the axles (with one wheel on each) at the same time. Squaring 2 axles and an armature might be a bit tricky, but it is necessary.

Best of luck! Even if it doesn't completely work out, it's fun trying ...... and you can't buy this kind of experience!

Well, the wheels go in and spin freely, but I have to wait until a 2034-108 bearing plate arrives to test the armature!  That was one of several critical parts missing from my patient.............

I'm not so sure the cost of replacing the missing parts will be worth what the total re-sale value of this locomotive, but I've sure gained a lot of experience and fun (quite honestly) with this challenge.  I wouldn't have ever just taken one apart to see if I could put it back together, but I sure know more, now!

That 2034-108 number sure doesn't sound right. don't think it will work. Where did you find that number? How about 8040-120.

Did anyone else notice that Lionel changed the cluster gear on their scout motor in the last few years? 

I saw one of the newer Scouts laying on a table at York a couple of years ago, and it looked to me like they made the outside gear (first stage) bigger.  This should translate to more gear reduction, and smoother, more prototypical speeds.  I think they made this change right around the same time they started selling Scout sets with the LionChief  remote control.

Unfortunately I don't know the part number.  I can't seem to find any of the recent Scouts on the lionelsupport parts website.  If it turns out that the bigger cluster gear and retainer are compatible with Mr. Pyle's 8040-style wound-field motor, that would make for a nice performance upgrade!

I got the p/n from Greenberg's Operating & Repair Manual for Lionel Fundimensions 1970-1978.  The pics online look right, too.

As far as the cluster gear changing and affecting performance, well, since more than 2 spinning centers are fixed (armature, cluster gear pivot on the bearing plate, idle center pin, and the main driving wheels), the meshing gear diameters all have to be fixed.  If at least one point was variable or we were dealing with only two fixed centers, we maybe could change something.  But I believe the fixed geometry will not allow an upgrade - which is really too bad!   I would have welcomed that kind of change.

I'm thinking maybe some JB Weld or Gel Super glue on the missing stand off would beat nothing there. If nothing else to stop frame collapse from an exuberant hand.

  I would wait until it's spinning though in case you need to tweak something (e.g. armature rubs field, etc). Play with tweaking while running, looking for bind /slowing, then making sure it's tweaked away from the bind while glue cures.

@KJPyle you're right.  One way you might be able to make it work... In the stock setup, the armature pinion, the cluster gear, and the idler gear between the wheels all lie along the same vertical line.  If you can offset the new-design cluster gear downward and slightly fore or aft, there's probably a position where its larger outer gear would engage with the armature pinion, and its smaller inner gear would still engage with the idler gear between the wheels.

Another possibility would be to leave the cluster gear aligned vertically, but use a smaller idler gear between the wheels, and bring both axles closer together.  Normally this would be a very invasive modification.  But since your chassis is easily disassembled, it wouldn't be a big deal to stack the aluminum side plates and drill new axle holes clear through both of them, in perfect alignment, but closer together.  Same diameter, re-use the bearings, etc.  The driving wheels will cover the original holes.  As a bonus, you might move the wheels inboard far enough to clear the protruding screw, which would allow you to reinstall the last spacer!

That large idler gear and the wide gap between the wheels always screamed "toy train" to me.  So this mod would improve appearance AND performance (although a Postwar purist would notice right away that it had been modified.)  Ever since I saw that larger cluster gear, I've been itching to try a mod like this.  Maybe you'll beat me to it!

Not to be picky, but I see an error in your re-assembly. The top front spacer needs to go on the bottom. You will notice the square cut out in it. That is used to retain the trailing truck tang. What about the collector assembly?

Thanks for the eagle eye observation, Chuck.  Fortunately, both small spacers and large spacers are identical, so there is a slotted spacer ready for the trailing truck.  I had to pay sharp attention to all of the spacers because both the slot in the small versions and the tapped hole in the larger ones are NOT centered in the spacers.  Because of the gears built into the left side drivers, the entire motor case is slightly off center to the right, so the tapped holes and slots had to be skewed to the left so they end up in the center of the unit.  And your comment isn't picky if you help prevent a flood of bad words coming forth later in the assembly.

And, holy cow!! Ted!!  I feel lucky enough that I got the two halves back together as it is!  But I do see what you're considering - both seem like a lot of work, but here is my 2 cents on both versions;  I'm not crazy about the second alteration, because you would not only have to move the wheel bearings, but also the idler pivot pin installed in the case, plus the shortened wheelbase may make the engine bounce more over switches & cross track.   However the original suggestion isn't so bad, but it's a bit more of a machining challenge because the cluster gear pin is integral with the armature bearing plate.  So you need to fabricate a new bearing plate and install it using the current attach holes (and probably drill a new indexing hole in the case), BUT if it doesn't work out so well, you can easily return the engine to the original configuration.

I'm just trying to Humpty Dumpty running again, so, sorry, that mod is out.  But I did take this unique opportunity to paint the case black to better blend in, and I figured out a way to 'whitewall' my drivers using my drill press.  And I'll give the body a custom paint job while I'm waiting for parts to arrive.