Recommendations on a transformer.

Are you planning on running conventional, DCS, TMCC orca mix?  I don't run any conventional and have great sucess with Lionel 180 brick. 

Depending on what your are going to do with the layout.  If conventional then I would suggest an MTH Z-4000 Plenty of power to handle mid size layouts and above. will also be a good Transformer to go with if you are thinking about adding either of the Command control systems from Lionel or MTH.  Personally I use a Pair of Postwar ZW's to power all of my conventionsl Tracks and I use 4 MTH Z-1000 100 Watt Bricks to power my DCS System for my Christmas layout. 

With a little more information we can direct you a little better in what you want to do and which way to go.

If money is an issue, start out with a Postwar ZW if running conventional.  At the $100-125 price point, you can run either 4 trains or two plus accessories.  The MTH z-4000 is almost three times the price. 

I've been running with my PW ZW since 1993, no issues. 

To add to this initial post, what power supply would be recommended for only a midsize layout (10 x 21) with 3 loops, a 3 track yard and 1 siding running three trains at once using DCS ?  Is there an advantage to using a brick(s) over the Z-4000.  What about using a separate power supply for accessories, switches & lighting ?  Is it better to use the Z-4000 for all or use a separate power supply for track power and another for the rest ? 

Thanks,  Mike     

Mike,

The advantages of the 135w or 180w bricks for DCS or any command system are:

1. Cost - they are significantly less expensive than a Z-4000 (and have fewer features)
2. You don't have to move levers.  You can set the voltage level, place the transformers under the layout out of sight and use a power strip (1 big ON/OFF switch).

I'm using 2 180w bricks to run my 18 x 10 PRR Panhandle (8 power districts allocated between the two bricks).  Accessories, switch machines and lights are handled by two K-Line PowerChief 120F transformers (this is still in progress).

George 

KW transformers are well priced, put out lots of power and very rugged.  If you end up with a very large layout you will need several transformers.  I have two transformers (a Z and a Right of Way monster just for all the fixed voltage needs.  Needed the Z since I had more 12 volt lights than the Right of Way could handle

George, thanks for the info.  Sounds like bricks are the way to go.  How would I know how much power and/or how many bricks to use on a layout ?  Looks like my layout is similar in size to yours, so maybe the 2 180w bricks would work with another brick for the rest.  I'll have 14 switches, about 170 feet of track with some operating accessories.  Initially, I plan on having 1 pasenger and 2 diesels trains.  Is there a preference for using MTH or Lionel bricks.

Mike 

Mike,

The two 180 watt bricks are more than enough power for my layout (4 mainline power districts plus 4 devoted to sidings or yards).  Keep in mind that the Lionel bricks only have 1 output connector (and voltage setting), so multiple power settings (for accessories and lights) aren't possible with them.  Here's what I mean:

For track power, the Lionel 180 watt bricks will be set to 1 of 3 voltage outputs (and kept there). 

For accessories, you may need multiple separate voltage settings to run various sets of lights or multiple accessories.  That's where something like the K-Line PowerChief 120F comes in.  It has multiple AC fixed taps - 3v, 5v, 8v, 12v, 15v, and 20v.  I'm not sure how useful a brick will be for running accessories.

I use one of my two PowerChief 120F's to run all my TMCC switch motors (15v tap).  I'm in the process of calculating voltage load on my accessories and figuring how how to allocate them to the remaining taps on the 120F.

I know the MTH transformers (Z-1000, Z-500, Z-750) come in two parts - a brick and a control handle.  I didn't know if the brick part is usable without the control part.

Hope this helps.

George

George, it appears that the Powerchief 120f's are older.  Can they still be bought new.  If not, are there any others that can and would work as well ? 

Mike

You know Mike, that is the $64,000 question.  I know they are no longer available since K-Line went belly-up, but I haven't seen any manufacturer step into the hole and provide a replacement.  As far as I know (I could be wrong), there isn't a replacement or similar product out there.  You might try eBay.  I certainly wish I had bought a 3rd.

George

A PW KW would do the job, you'd have two variable outputs and several fixed voltage selections.  They're in the same price range as the Powerchief.

Save yourself any worry or hassle, and prepare from the start for future growth.  Get an MTH Z4000 and be good to go with anything you might need at the early stages or well into the future, and whether you choose conventional or command control.  Yes, they cost a bit more, but you'll be getting a well built and powerful transformer that has a very good reputation for dependable use on thousands of layouts, big and small, around this nation and the world.

I held off on buying one until fairly recently, and could kick myself for waiting so long.

If using a Z4000, is it still a good idea to power the TIU with a separate power supply ?  The Z4000 can handle track, accessory, lighting & switch power needs ?

Thanks, Mike   

That's what I do.

I think its too risky to use any PW transformer with modern engines these day unless you spend some money to get them checked out and use external circuit breakers and TVS.

A Z-4000 or 180 watt PowerHouse are good choices right now. Lionel will have the new ZW-L any day now plus a new mid-range transformer in the Fall

Blue Sheep

The  TIU [track interface unit]is a 4 channel controller for MTH's DCS. Basically you could connect a 180 watt, 18 fixed volt Power House to each channel or, connect each Z4K throttle[2] to a channel. There are variations on use of the channels.

Regarding the Z 4000: Yes on postwar.

I for one am on a tight budget. I use a Z-1000 brick and a Z750 brick. (Until I get another Z-1000 brick)

I like the Z-4000 as a solid and very powerful Conventional supply but for running Pure Command I find it sub-optimal.

You can't just flick on the power, you MUST reset both handles to off then roll them back on.

With bricks, I walk in, push the Power strip on and run trains.

The TIU is a Track Interface Unit that is the "brains" of the MTH DCS (Digital Command) System.  It can be used, in conjunction with the MTH handheld remote, to control MTH PS2, MTH PS3, Lionel TMCC, and Lionel Legacy locomotives (although not all features of the latter may be accessible via the DCS configuration).

The Z4000 transformer will work just fine with any AC-powered trains, postwar or otherwise, and of any make.

I would highly recommend the MTH Z1000 or a ZW WITH good circuit protection which is cheap and easy for a lot less than a Z4000. Many say the Z4000 puts out clean power but the ZW is less likely to have voltage spikes and a ZW will last you a life time and plenty of power. Both the Z1000 and ZW are pretty affordable and are great. Good luck on you layout! 

I have a Z4000 and a 6x12 layout.  I have used it for close to 10 years with no problems whatsoever.  IMHO, they are extremely reliable.  I am running conventional, TMCC, Legacy and PS2 engines.  If you happen to get your hands on a PS-1 engine, the Z4000 makes programming a lot easier.  When the time comes, I will probably get another.

Russell makes a valid point about cost.  If the budget is tight, a Z1000 or Z750 are also good (but less powerful) choices.  His point about needing to "move the handles" is valid if you do not have a Z4000 receiver plugged into the Z4000.  With a Z4000 receiver, you can control the voltage of both handles from a remote (either the regular DCS remote or one that is available separately).  Z4000 receivers just made a comeback.  If you get a Z4000, get a receiver too.

Personally, I think the PW ZW is a very decent choice for power, and as Liam states, it's really no more likely than any other transformer to generate a transient spike on it's own.  It does require good circuit protection on the outputs that is included with a modern transformer, but that can be added for less than $25 for the four outputs.  Personally, I'd use a fast acting circuit breaker and a TVS on each output.

The PW ZW also can be had pretty regularly for around $125-150, far less than the Z4000.  I'm not disparaging the Z4000, it's obviously the pick if money is no object, but for most that is not the case.

Can you recommend a good fast acting circuit breaker?

Thanks.

Here is a good product.

http://www.scottsodds-n-ends.com/circuit_breakers.htm

Al Galli

Thanks for the info.

I use aZ4000 to power my trains a seperate transformer to supply power to the TIU and 2 ZWs for lights and accessories.

Lionel Post war ZW all th way.

That electronic stuf is all beyond me.

You gotta really like the neww electronics

to go with all the new wireless power

sources.

I run 3 ZWs at shows and have never had any problems.