ROSS SWITCH PROBLEM

I'm not sure who told you to insulate all three middle rails, but it's working.  No power is getting to the rails within the switch.

What was the intended purpose of the insulating pins?

I was told that I had to insulate them by the person I bought them from....an out of business hobby shop.  I have my loop divided into six blocks because it is over 130' around.  I was advised to insulate each block and the switches. 

Confused now.  The switch machine works but no track power.  Do I need to take out all of the insulating pins in the switches? So do I need to take out the insulating pins? Frustrating when you have a day to work on things and nothing gets done.  

Which insulating pins you need to take and replace with metal pins depends on how your blocks and power districts are set up.  There's no way for any of us to know this.  As it is now, each switch is its own very tiny block, with no power to it yet.

BUT, you do need to have a source of electricity to the switch rails so trains can travel thorough under power.  It is your choice, by design of the layout and location of the switch, how that is going to happen.

I questioned them and they told me I had to.  It doesn't make sense because the power stops because of the plastic pins.  They said I had to insulate them from the blocks.  I asked them again and got the same reply.  Am I right in assume that there needs to be no plastic pins? 

So the question is...I need to take out the plastic pins on all three middle rails?  I understand that the switch machines need their own power and  I am supplying that with the acc side of the A4000. 

Can I make the switch part of track power block....to get power through the switch...then just power the switch machine off of the acc on the Z4000?

I have six blocks for the loop.  If I make the switches part of each block it should work,correct?

If for example, all switches set for straight are in your 130' loop, treat them just like straight sections in that loop and you should be fine.  But, where do the switches go if you turn out?  That might be the logical place to begin another block - at the start of the route turning out of the switch, with an insulating pin.  The trains actually on the switch, before rolling out to the next block, will get their power from the block in which the switch resides.  This is how most folks do it.

Here is a simple layout with 2 blocks, a switch, and a siding.  Three insulating pins total.  (Disregard the bulbs and filters drawn in)

Removed the insulating pins and all is well.  The way they told me to wire it was for Lionel track.......so much for your local hobby shop & good advice.  Now the switch is just part of the track block with the switch powered from the acc side of the Z4000.  Thanks to all for the help.  It never did make sense to me.....

Rob: The above is not quite correct. The diagram I posted from Ross states all 3 center rails are isolated from each other (Lionel jumpers these together) Placing an insulating pin there will kill that section of the switch. A metal pin would be in order to power the center rail. It is already isolated from the other 2 and the mainline thus no need for a plastic pin.

Jim: Reading posts about how your hobby shop wasted your day when you could have clicked on the Ross icon to your upper right as you read this. Clicked on technical. Clicked on switch manual. Read wiring. A total of 4 minutes. Reading your above post you still have it wrong. Even after I posted a direct link to the Ross page. On this page they explain the start of a block. WOW!

The hobby shop may have said "all three legs are insulated" then. 

With the Ross switches, it is my understanding then that you do have to provide a power feed to each leg, usually from the adjoining block.

The hobby shop is correct all 3 legs are insulated.

That is also correct. All 3 legs need a power feed. The metal pins become a power feed. Thus my statement about needing a metal pin instead of a insulated pin on the turnout leg. If not what would power the turnout leg. This leg is labeled C in the Ross diagram and is isolated from A and C no isolated pin needed.

As a side note and not to confuse things but A is not connected to B creating a break in the mainline. If the switch is not meant to be a block break and assuming 1 drop per block then one side of that switch will be dead. A and B may need to be connected.

I said that the hobby shop told me I needed insulating pins in all middle rails of the switches. (which they were more than happy to sell me)  I said nothing about the rails being insulated. I know the difference between Lionel track and track where each rail is not connected.  Like I said earlier in the post the information I was given seems to be how to do it with Lionel track.  Nowhere in the post do I ask nor debate that all three rails are insulated.  I was talking about what they told me to do with the switches.

My point was they told me to insulate (with plastic pins) all three middle rails of the switch.  I  was there along with my son and that is what was said.

I questioned him on how the power was going to go through the switch if I used the plastic pins.  He replied when you wire the switch machine it will take care of it.

Hence the question I asked about removing the pins to keep the power going through the block to the next plastic pin in the next block.

Rob said: The hobby shop may have said "all three legs are insulated" then

I said:      The hobby shop is correct all 3 legs are insulated.

This bends you out of shape to guys trying to help you. WOW!!!

The switches are Rossready.  They are not prewired?

OK. That changes things. 1 and 2 both need the plastic insulating pins. The Blue wire will attach to power from the straight through track. The 3rd leg is somehow connected either jumper from 1 and 2 or directly from Blue wire. Most likely jumper from 1 and 2. This means a 3rd insulating pin. Hobby shop correct.

Power goes to the switch from 2 sources the blue wire is the track power. Again the hobby shop was right the switch takes care of track power. The switch machine is powered from the Red wire this is generally another source than track power. You have your common and switch control wires all follow.

The drawing shows using a relay DZ1008....the switches came only with the switch machine attached, a button to switch track position and no DZ1008.

I did a little editing. Give me a second to digest what you just said.

ok

I guess Ross ready means the DZ-1000 switch machine is included and pre-wired. The DZ-1008 is a relay that switches power from 1 and 2 depending on the throw of the switch. According to the drawing 1 and 2 are to remain dead without it. That would mean insulated pins with or without the 1008.

 I read the manual version of this turnout and 1 and 2 get power via the contacts of the switch throw acting as a relay. 

Best bet is to call Ross.

According toSteve @ Ross today.  All metal pins and no relay for a 100 Rossready switches...........He is such a good person to deal with and said anytime you have a problem give us a call.  Great cutomer service.