Run Lionel AF on DC current?

Good question.I'll be interested in seeing what the answer is,too.

Mark in Oregon

Hi Bob,

You will probably get a lot of opinions about this.  The short answer is no -- to right out of the box.  However, you can gut the electronics and they will perform beautifully on DC.  I did this to my Flyonel Mikado.

My Y3 has been reprogrammed… Lionel has allowed a few people to be ‘reprogramers’ and they can make the machine responsive to DC.  The Y3 still has sound, but the smoke is turned off. All the lights work.  That said I am unhappy with its operation for several reasons.  First is it does not run like the rest of my DC engines.  I have to turn the throttle to mid way to get anything out of it.  I guess it takes a lot of power to run all the circuit boards that are still in it.  It doesn’t seem to respond all that well and there is a lot of sporadic hesitation.  Sometimes it just stops for no apparent reason.  Every once in a while, I can’t get it to do anything.  Yesterday I was playing with it and it stopped… it wouldn’t move forward or backwards, however the funny thing was it started to smoke – as in the smoke unit kicked in (I added fluid to keep that from burning out)… what was that all about?

My guess – and this is only a guess – is the electronics are way too complex and the simple DC reprogramming doesn’t really cover all the bases.  There as too many places where the program can hang up.  I guess it just wasn’t tested enough before being released to the public.  I will probably gut the Y3.  The reprogramming was a noble experiment by Lionel, but it just really doesn’t work.

I’ve heard that new engines will be DC compatible, but if they are anything like my Y3, I would be hard pressed to call that compatible.  Maybe ok it you run them in isolation, but definitely not like a normal DC engine from AM or SHS or a converted Flyer for that matter.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Tom et al.,

Such motors purportedly can be converted from AC to DC operation by replacing the original open frame motor with a suitably equivalent can motor and adding a bridge rectifier across the field.  [This process was said to be quick and simple- -at least for AF steam locos.]

Two questions:

1. Is such a hardware-oriented- -rather than a “reprogramming”- - conversion also possible with Lionel American Flyer TrainMaster Command Control-equipped motive power?

2. Even If the above-noted conversion can be done, am I correct in assuming that the loco’s TMCC features would be forever “lost”- -that is, not transferable to DCC operation?

Hi Bob,

I think only the open frame motors can be run on AC or DC, all can motors are DC.  As far as I know all new Flyonel have can motors… half of the electronics in them is to get the DC (can) motor to run on AC.  So simply stripping the electronics out will leave you with an engine that runs very well on DC.  A (full wave) bridged rectifier will not to the trick for newer Flyonel that is any Flyonel that has Lionel electronics in it.  The rectifier idea is great for ACG Flyer, however or any open frame motor.

The ‘reprogramming’ was Lionel’s idea as a work-a-round for the Y3s.  As I said before, I am under the impression that production newer than the Y3 will be preset to recognize DC current.  However, if they will perform any better than my Y3 compared to an AM, SHS or converted Flyer engine, I can’t say.  If I didn’t think I might go to DCC some day, I would gut my Y3.

If DCC is in your future, you don’t want to mess with the circuit boards – at least on new production. 

I am now getting past what I know.  I was hoping more knowledgeable people would join in.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Thanks, Tom.  I'll abide by your advice and refrain from buying any modern Lionel AF motive power...at least until Lionel releases one designed to run on both AC and DC. 

Bob,

Lionel did not design the Y3 to run on DC. They were a bit surprised that it did, although, as Tom Stoltz points out, the results were not ideal. The SD70ACe and the ES44AC WERE designed to run on both AC or DC. I suspect the results are much better in conventional DC use, but no one has confirmed or disproved that yet. The ability to be compatible with AC, TMCC, Legacy, DC, or DCC is something that Lionel is providing the S gauge community and something that the O gauge community would love to have. My hope is that these efforts by Lionel will actually work out for everyone's benefit no matter what format we are using.