Running 2 Trains At Once With 1 DCS

Do you have a TIU and do you mean two trains on the same track?

Track space?

You can run multiple trains on DCS out of the box, no add-ons needed. Also DCS has a start all feature so they can all start at once regardless of the engine ID

With the full-blown DCS system there's two ways to do it:

1) You can control speed, sounds, couplers, etc. on your PS2-PS3 engines independently simply by switching engines in the remote to perform the command (select the ENG button) and select the engine in your list to perform what you want to do, and repeat the process for the other engine(s) in your remote,

or,

2) You can issue commands from the remote to both engines at the same time using the "ALL" command on the remote.

If you're using a DCS commander (the "lite" version of DCS) any engine you put on the track need to have an engine ID of 1 in order for it to work with it, so any engines you put on the track will behave the same way as the "ALL" command mentioned above.

Rozy, theoretically you can run 99 trains at once on a single DCS, but of course power supply would be a problem.  Best I've been able to run when I'm alone is 6 because my mind doesn't work any faster.  And they can be as close together as you dare.

Just did it today for the first, what a blast.  We had two engines chasing each other around our small loop.  We can finally have fun with our two line yard.  I ran my Morning Daylight with passenger consist and our new GP-9 with a consist of freight cars.  My son was in heaven.  I'll post a video later.  They were on Fixed channel one powered by one channel off my PW ZW.

Are you sure about that John? I've never tried it, but I've been told that if you separate the receivers so each remote only "sees" its receiver, you can control 2 (or more) trains separately on the same track. Compared to RF, this would be a strange way to operate a layout, but I believe it's possible. IMHO, that's the biggest thing LionChief has going for it, RF control at a very affordable price.

And, no, I'm not trying to start another LC vs MTH discussion again, just making an observation.

I have the DCS Commander (MTH #50-1028), with a total of five locomotives uniquely addressed to the Commander (numbered 6, 15, 23, 54, and 67 in my case).  Given the limitation of the power supply (a Z 1000) I will run two locomotives at a time, one pulling 4 to 5 lighted passenger cars, the other pulling freight cars.  I control them separately around a 65' loop of track.  I can have the others locomotives sitting on a siding and started, but not moving at this point.  I have had three locomotives moving at once one time, but with no cars on the track that drew power.

When I run two locomotives as a consist, I use the "all" feature on the Commander.  The address display goes blank as the locomotives are being collectively commanded.  I select engines to run this way based on test runs to determine how closely they run one to the other regarding speed, so they do not push or pull on each other.

Once both engines are added into the handheld unit:

Select the 1st engine using the ENG button and scroll thru the engine list using the thumbwheel, then pressing the thumbwheel down to select the engine.  Then press the START UP button to start the engine.  Then you can scroll the thumbwheel to get it moving.

Next, select the 2nd engine using the ENG button and scroll thru the engine list using the thumbwheel, then pressing the thumbwheel down to select the engine.  Then press the START UP button to start the engine.  Then you can scroll the thumbwheel to get it moving.

Dave,

Are you sure about that John? I've never tried it, but I've been told that if you separate the receivers so each remote only "sees" its receiver, you can control 2 (or more) trains separately on the same track.

That only works if the engines are on separate loops, as well as having the receivers placed where the handheld can only "see" one at a time.

Any engines that are on the same track will both respond to all commands from all receivers connected to that track.

Thanks, Barry, I've been misinformed then, or I misunderstood (though I'm pretty sure I remember asking that specifically). I guess that's a bigger plus than I thought then for the LionChief remote system, but that's another topic, so I'l leave it at that.

Dave,

I guess that's a bigger plus than I thought then for the LionChief remote system, but that's another topic, so I'l leave it at that.

Yes and no. The bigger difference is the engine itself.

The downside to a LionChief engine is that it cannot ever be run with TMCC or Legacy. While it's more flexible as regards multiple engine operation than is the DCS Remote Commander, it's a closed system. A PS2 or PS3 engine can operate on the full DCS at a later date.

Gentlemen,

   I do not understand the problem, we ran multipule P2 trains and a conventional all on the same track with DCS and one remote, has something changed that I am unaware of?

Maybe I am misunderstanding what he really wants to know.

PCRR/Dave

There are 4-5 different trains running on the tracks you see, one conventional Williams

City of San Fan and the MTH P2 GG1 running on the same track, the Tin Plate and the 0-6-0 train on the same track are both P2 all controlled from the same DCS remote control, switches included.

To answer some of the ?, yes  I am using DCS with TIU, 2 trains on 1 continues track. I get the step of having the 2 trains started & moving. Assuming they are at different ends of the layout they must have to be set at different speeds ?. Do you have to keep going back & forth on the remote between Engines to increase or decrease speed or to stop 1 to  avoid a collision?. Can that be controlled in the All mode ?.

          ROZY205

The question was raised earlier in this thread if ROZY was talking about a full Remote/TIU setup or just the Remote Lite setup that comes with R-T-R sets. ROZY hasn't responded, so we still don't know the exact question.

Anyway, several have pointed out how to run multiple trains with the full remote/TIU setup using a single remote and John mentioned how it would work if ROZY was asking about the Remote Lite setup. I had been misinformed about the ability to run 2 trains on the same track with a Remote Lite setup and that led to the side discussion with Barry about that and the LionChief system.

The bottom line is you can run 2 or more trains with the full Remote/TIU setup and retain complete control over each train. You can also run 2 or more trains with the Remote Lite setup, but all trains will respond to the same commands at the same time and that is not very useful.

EDIT: And I see ROZY responded while I was composing this, so the discussion about the Remote Lite limitations can be ignored.

Rozy 205,

    You will need to control the trains as they run going back and forth on your hand held remote, some trains run at different speeds,

25 on one train maybe different that 25 on another.  Running 2  P2 trains is not a big deal, especially on a good size layout, 3-5 trains is a different matter and takes some watching and some manual switching along with some remote switching.  You can even run a conventional if you have the side receiver for your Z4K.  I highly recommend Barry's DCS O gauge companion and the OGR Video guide to DCS if you are planning on running multipule trains on the same track, lots of good information in both the book and watching the Video also.

Good running to ya

PCRR/Dave

That's a good question and something I'd like to know too. I have a small layout and want to buy a diesel to go along with the steamer I have. If I can get them both running, then control the speed of both with the ALL command, that would be nice. Even if that works though, I suspect one will be a tad faster/slower than the other, so some individual control would be needed. The ALL command could also be useful in the Record/Playback mode. I only have the one engine right now, so I can't experiment with running multiple engines with the Record/Playback function.

If I put them at opposit ends of the loop then the adjustments are not as often.  They both don't mirror 18 smph for example.

I may be howling at the moon here, but can't a lash-up be used? Page 83 of the DCS Operator's Manual says if you operate a lash-up without the engines being coupled together, they will each individually power up and follow the lash-up commands, wherever they are on the layout.

Well, if they don't run at the same speed with the same speed setting individually, I don't think they'll do any better configured in an MU (lash-up) configuration.  Many of my DCS locomotives are very close to scale speed, but several do not keep as close to the proper speed.

So, are you saying those engines don't work when configured as a lash-up? The faster engine ends up "pulling" the slower engine?

My main point with the lash-up idea is not to have to try to match speeds with the dial, both engines would start, stop, etc., as one. Thinking about it further though, that would be true of the ALL command to, wouldn't it? I just saw ROZY's comment "I get the step of having the 2 trains started & moving" and the lash-up idea popped into my head. I also thought part of the lash-up process might compensate for speed variances between 2 engines, but that is probably too much to hope for.

Dave,

 are you saying those engines don't work when configured as a lash-up? The faster engine ends up "pulling" the slower engine?

John is correct when he states:

"if they don't run at the same speed with the same speed setting individually, I don't think they'll do any better configured in an MU (lash-up) configuration."

However, it's a case of being "close enough" in speed that most any properly configured (correct sound file and speed parameters, and undamaged timing stripes)  DCS engines, even if their speeds vary a bit one from the other, will work fine in a lashup.

Thanks, Barry. I was recently told I'm probably in for a big surprise if I think DCS will provide the type of operation I think it will, so I'm being a little overcautious when I see comments like this.

Barry nailed it, frequently an MU configuration for DCS or Legacy doesn't run at exactly the same speed.  If they're "close", they seem to work fine.  The only ones I've had issues with are TMCC, they are less likely to be trouble-free in an MU, but with the ERR Cruise Commander I've had pretty good luck.

Recently Jon Z. from Lionel suggested putting the faster locomotive in front in a Legacy consist, probably makes sense for DCS as well.

That does seem to make sense to me too, but then what do I know?

So, it seems like you can use either the ALL command or a Lash-up. If you use ALL, it will affect all engines on the layout. If you Lash-up, it will only affect the engines in the lash-up.

Yep!

T Mack,

   Great little video, love the Pa engine with all the smoke!

PCRR/Dave

Yes, nice video and nice layout.

This is the whole enchilada.  6x12

Nicely done. I take it the 2 levels are separate? And the layout backs up to the wall? If it does, any problems accessing the back tracks?

Here is the link to the photos on Flickr  http://www.flickr.com/photos/t...s/72157626165227562/

We needed tunnels and I wanted an Urban center. When I started I was 100% conventional so it is all separated.  Two loops on the bottom, one on top, Superstreets and and elevated bump and go MTH Trolley.  Now that I have DCS and two PS2 engines, I can use my two line yard.  I'd like to get one more Diesel, maybe a switcher, so I can run the diesel on the lower area with the yard and put my Daylight up in the urban area and passenger area.  Just not many options for Rail King with Smoke in the smaller diesel class.  My son loves to crank the smoke to max.  We may just need to go with a basic PS2 switcher and not worry.

Originally this was in my garage more as a walk around or partial walk around, so I have two manual switches that are in the wrong place we operate them with a 3 foot dowel rod .  With the DCS system though I need to move to electric switches.

-Ted

Even better in all those photos. Thanks for the Flickr link.

Only if the TIU's are linked together in super mode.  I have a TIU channel for each loop with a handheld dedicated to each loop and 3 or 4 trains per loop with each having at least one double or MU per loop. Having my three TIU's in normal mode, I use the "ALL" command to start all the trains on each particular individual loop.  The point to note is that the TIU only remembers the last group of engines addressed with the "ALL" command. (a work around is to select the TIU before each use of the "all" comand which will place those engines in the TIU) I use the "All" command to start all the engines on the track including MUs and multiple headers placing them in the order of fastest to slowest, I then adjust the slack between trains by addressing each train individually.  It gets hectic when running multiple loops simultaneously but if the lashup and engine numbers are unique you will not run into any issues.  Also if you want to further juggle controllers add the cab 2 which will permit you to run a Legacy train behind the MTH trains on each loop.  Enjoy.

So, it seems like you can use either the ALL command or a Lash-up. If you use ALL, it will affect all engines on the layout. If you Lash-up, it will only affect the engines in the lash-up.

Not exactly. You tell DCS which engines to use with the ALL command behaving all other engines in the Inactive Engine List. Further, the ALL command and lashups are different.

The ALL command tells all engines for which ALL is active to do a command and all of those engines do it.

When operating a lashup, the engines in the MU consist are addressed as  one engine. When the Bell is sounded, only the lead engine's bell sounds. Likewise with the horn or whistle. When the front coupler is fired,  only the front coupler on the lead engine actually opens. When the rear coupler is fired, only the rear coupler on the tail engine's coupler actually opens.

Lashups can be include din ALL engines operations, however, the reverse is not possible.

One last ? before we put this one to bed. With 2 trains running on 1 continuous track in Command mode using a TIU DCS Remote, coming from different directions is the only way to stop one train so the other can  proceed, to select the ENG that I want to stop & use the thumbwheel to bring its speed to zero ?

          ROZY205

Yes, that;s one way. The others are to select the engine and:

• Double-tap the brake button. This will stop the engine with it set to proceed forward
• Press the DIR button. This will stop the engine with it set to proceed backward
• If you have Quickset Speed enabled (available in DCS 4.0 and later), you can press the thumbwheel, press 0 and press the thumbwheel again.  This will stop the engine with it set to proceed forward.

That is how I do it.  Either use the quick speed command or roll the wheel back to zero.

When operating a lashup, the engines in the MU consist are addressed as  one engine. When the Bell is sounded, only the lead engine's bell sounds. Likewise with the horn or whistle.

One additional point is that after the mu has been created, the component engines are placed in the inactive area on the handheld.  If you move the component engines to the active area, you can reset the sound and lights etc. on that engine. I usually go into the trailing engines and modify the sound from sound off to adding sound (especially the horn.) It is not prototypical, but I enjoy addressing an mu and hear 3 or 4 whistles blowing simultaneously.