SCENERY PROS -- I NEED YOUR ADVICE

you seem to have a lot of steam engines so with that said I would think coal would be laying around in places along with ash maybe a few rocks and weeds

 . spare parts laying around

 

Perhaps consider adding some people figures.  Folks working in the yard would add realism and interst.  Maybe a welding scene with blinking LED lights. 

 

Perhaps the LIONEL TMCC crane in a working scenario.  

 

some tools, rusty wheels, etc.  

Oil spots, and where are all the people servicing choo choos and equipment and how do all those people get around??? Need a few service vehicles around trucks and what not

Your biggest problem is that 3rd rail trains GS-4 in the background. That has no business on your layout and I think you should let me do you the huge favor of getting rid of that for you

I havent even put the structures in for the diesel servicing area, sand tower, vehicles, fuel racks and of course lots of figures. I have a lot of that stuff to go in, but want to get the ground cover pretty much done. Although there is a track leading to the TT pit, its not the main inbound or outbound track, so most of the steam engines will stay over by the RH.

Keep the ideas coming, but more on the ground cover.

Maybe some type of green bushes or weeds or by the water tank or around the feet???

First, that's an impressive scene w/ roundhouse, tt, etc. 

 

Wouldn't the track primarily used for steam engine access to the TT be heavily oiled, or at least more oiled than the storage tracks for cabooses, etc.?  The ballast of the three tracks seems too uniform and well-kept. 

 

Overall, and looking at your photo on my 17" laptop's monitor, everything seems too clean and neat.  The pad for the tank looks pristine, as does the concrete building and roundhouse, etc.  The track, all of the track, looks too well groomed--nasty it up some; those steam engines put out a lot of soot moving around and drop a lot of lubricants on the right of way.

 

 

Very valid points Pingman.... too clean and uniform. The concrete building is the diesel service shop. Its just a shell, nothing inside or out yet, just needed the footprint for space planning.

Good morning

 

Put in a drainage ditch with weeds along side the ballasted tracks on the left. Then spray the whole scene with used dirty motor oil then sift dirt from the side of the road on top of that. 

Doug,

I would put a no. 6 oil storage tank in that space. About ten inches in diameter by 8 inches tall, but I would put oil tanks everywhere.

 

Alan Graziano

Great modeling here and an excellent scene.

"I think" and since you asked -all you need is to make it look lived in so to speak

Sure, add weeds and clutter, drums, maybe a stack of ties, some pallets, rail laying around, clutter.

 

And then the dirt, dirtiness, black coal dust in around and over the tracks. This is one of the things I demonstrate in some of my clinics at train shows. Making things dirty and a placed lived in. You can certainly refer to my Spruce Coal & Timber facebook page for some ideas as I have lots of pics and video there. I don't want to crash your thread with my pics. This is about your layout. My facebook page is at facebook.com/sprucemodel

 

Joey

I had the same issue.  I used a combination of the sands from Brennan's hoping to get a grittier look.  And it worked, but the color was too uniform and the whole thing, as you say, did not 'pop'.  But, I don't think you need it to 'pop', you need it to look less uniform.

 

I ended up experimenting with zip texturing, as well as  randomly laying down various india ink washes in order to get variety into the color.  The zip texturing did not quite get me what I wanted in terms of the color palette, but it certainly did add variety in color shades.  The india ink was a bit more successful.  I am still working on this, but the difficult thing with the sand is it doesn't take color very well.

 

My suggestion is to look at it from a color perspective, not a 'more stuff' perspective.  Also, random tufts will add A LOT.  Be judicious on placement (near building, poles etc.  But near the tracks is ok too.  I was in Roseville, CA a few years back staring at the UP yard and noticed that not only was the ballast/ground cover colors similar to what I have (black yard ballast from Brennan's/sand color similar to yours), but there was more vegetation throughout the yard thanI would have thought.  Also, add sand along the rails where the engines might find the going a bit slippery.  In most yards I have seen, there is alot of sand along the rails.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Dave

 

One other thing, I installed ground targets on every switch in my yard (Keil Line two lamp).  These added a lot in terms of visual interest and allowed for less focus on the vast expanse of yard ground cover.

see this picture , everything is one color , can't see the ties , years of soot , dirt , build up , little piles of white sand from the sanders being blown out on the rails

As others have observed it is too clean and uncluttered.  The one picture above gives something of the idea but it does not convey the fully range of possibilities.  Trainyards like this are working places.  In addition to signs of spills, etc., there is just all manner of "junlk" - old ties, old barrels, boxes, pallets, improved ramps, broken parts, and lots of no-one-knows-what-it-is just lying around.  Also will be odd vehicles and service equipment parked here and there.  Then remember the rails are never empty, but at least a few cars on them, and those are seldom uniform.  

Thanks a lot gentlemen. The general opinion is it's just too clean and uniform, and I agree. Everything by the RH and TT is black, soot covered, and oily, but I wanted to break that look up a bit over on this side.

 

Joey I was hoping you would chime in. Your scenery is some of the best I've ever seen. Feel free to post pictures, no problem at all.

 

One if not 2 of the tracks will be for caboose storage, so these tracks will never be empty, in fact they will probably be full to capacity at all times.

 

Alan G you send it, and I will place it  

Every Yard facility I have seen as a kid or ones with steam engines have that scorched earth look... Cinders, black dirt, dirt, and more dirt.... don't forget the puddles...

 

I would look at prototype photos and model what you see...

 

 

No junk piles lying around. Need some "organized clutter" in a space that large.

Not a scenery pro but...

Submerge the yard tracks with tie-top at ground level and use dark greasy ballast or a mix in the yard. Many good ideas above regarding weeds, steam junk and trash.

  I used 5/16" foam board painted both sides and glued atop the foam sub-roadbed to raise the "ground" to tie-top. Small service yard with still naked groundscaping.

 

Mainlines on cork raised roadbed and clean ballast.

How about a small parking lot next to that building with cars, trucks or people?  Workers got to drive to work... right?  Or maybe some RR maintenance vehicles?

Dirt, weeds and cutler. Look at some pictures of real rail yards.

Well, is way to clean... all cinders, oil spots, sand piles, ballast piles, drums, line poles, air lines, brake shoes, foundations of past structures,

 

Here's some shots:

 

 

 

One thing I remember seeing while I was walking around in the Conway yard was random piles of spilled products that were from covered hoppers, tank cars, etc.  One such place had a mini wheat field growing around the tracks from wheat that had spilled or leaked out.  Maybe you could add something like that.

 

Also, what about piles of ash, where steam locos had emptied their ash pans?  Some could be steaming hot with a hidden smoke unit underneath.

Here are some pictures from a visit to the turntable @ NS Conway Yard. (68) photos. Note that the TT is gone and so is the old Roundhouse just recently.  The TT pit was used as an oil collection area, then to a treatment plant before run off water was discharge to the Ohio River.  The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is all the oil absorbent material. Click on the underlined phrase to access a picture file.  Upper left corner control panel, click on slideshow. Milhouse River Studio, used these pictures as part of the Pennsylvania RR TT upgrade package, for the center cab control, and electrical bridge detail.


There is a sander on the TT that we modeled on the Fort Pitt Highrailer,s TT/RH modules.  The white along the pit rail is sand.
Yellow box/tube


Turntable Construction file.  Click on the underlined phrase to link.

 

Funny thing is, I work in a RR yard, 5 days a week. Things just don't look like they used to though with the PUC and all the environmental concerns now a days. Everything is neat, clean, tidy, and organized. Yeah there is different size ballast here and there, different colors, but not many weeds or grass at all. Dirt and rocks.... that's pretty much it.

 

I'm just focusing on the ground cover right now. I know I need figures, vehicles, and such to make the scene come alive... no doubt. I worked on it tonight to add some different colors and textures, but still don't like it. I didn't take pictures... got frustrated and just walked away for a bit.

 

The detailing of the scene will come later, I just want to get the ground cover down to at least give it a finished look, and no bare plywood showing through anywhere.

 

Thanks for all the tips so far... gonna go look through my library of RR books

How about a simple rail high platform for engine servicing, add a few mechanics and some barrels and oil cans, Flood lights 

Here are some pics that I have found useful.  You can incorporate some greenery if you like...depends on which way you want to go.  My personal thoughts are that it looks too clean and tidy.  I would add a bunch of "dirt" and grime, scraps of metal and wood laying around, oil stains, cinders and sand piles along the rails, vary the terrain a bit.  Maybe some very subtle variations in the level of ballast...piles of ballast ect.  Heck maybe even add a tree or two.

 

 

Look at photos N&W Class J posted.
see the realism!
your area is to perfect.
what do I mean by perfect?

you can see well ballasted tracks in your scene.
not real middle of rails full of oily dirt compacted over time with only ties showing sporadically here and there.

In short it's to neat and tidy look around at what the terrain looks like as you drive around are things all that neat and uniform looking?

the weeds and grass added after that will make your area pop and come alive.

You know, after a further review of the originals, I like the way it looks... clean and tidy.  Everything was new once.  Maybe the railroad just recently finished construction of this area.

 

Ron

 

 

 

All steam era round house areas had  worthington water pumps and water hoses so every spot could be covered.

A simple technique for making the ground look dirty and oil stained is to take some cheap flat black spray paint (from WallyMart $.99 a can) and spray on the ground cover in varying degrees of intensity to get the look you want.

 

jackson

Hey Doug,

 

All good advice so far. I build furniture, and sometimes I age and antique the pieces. I try to have a history, or story in my mind as to how the piece was used over the years, and where it would be worn and possibly dinged up. I think you should also try to have a history or story for the yard. What part of the facility is most heavily used, what is oldest, and possibly the dirtiest, etc. I think this might be of help. Let us know how it turns out.

 

Andy

This is at the steam service area. Of course it will get additional details along as several figures to bring it alive.

 

 

The concrete pad outside the diesel building will get fuel racks, sand tower, figures, and additional detailing.

 

 

For now, I'm just trying to get the bare plywood covered up with ground cover, then will go back and detail each scene to liven it up.

 

I think this is excellent advice to get things "just right."  i strongly recommend it.

 

It is both fun, and very productive in terms of results, to take some time to make up a story line or just think about "how did it get to here.?" for the scene.  For example, you might be modeling a diesel-era yard, but very likely before diesels it was steam-era yard, so it would still have traces - maybe more than traces - of the buildings, facilities, spills, muss and dirt, etc., from the steam era.  One thing I did on several locations on some of my layouts was to leave traces of old foundations/abandoned facilities, etc.  All very realistic additions that contribute to the realism.

Honestly I would leave it sort of simple. It might be a good spot to photograph your engines with the RH/TT scene in the background. Maybe you could run a line of utility poles through and have them terminating at a small substation. I think the Lionel floodlight towers should go though. The RK ones you have in the background are much nicer I think. Your whole scene here is pretty awesome, makes me want to work on my engine terminal sooner than later...

 

There is always lot's of 'STUFF' around the main engine house, diesel or steam.  They won't waste valuable indoor floor space for storage of this 'stuff'.  There is usually stacks of track maint 'stuff' as well. Things like tie plates, cans of spikes, switch frogs, signal parts, etc,.  Great looking area so far, keep up the good work.  Russ

 

ChiloquinRuss has it right - stuff. Whether its the junk I was talking about of clutter others were, he is correct that there is something - stuff sums it up well - everywhere.

 

I guess the think to remember is that all that room in a trainyard is there for a reason and folks doing there job use it all, often to 110% of it!

LOS, I was just watching your video and its coming along great. It looks awesome!

I noticed there are a lot of oil fired steamers; am I missing the fuel oil storage and filling area?

Oh, and I agree that adds pits would be not needed because of the details would be wasted, but what about paint the area where they would be dark gray to look like one?

Just some ideas...

Love the coaling tower, I came out great. (Coal delivery track?)

Thanks,
Mario

Scenery arrangement is important but What I find is that if you add O scale people the realism comes alive. I see many layouts that have great detail but they look like Ghost towns. You place a dozen or so people in them and the scene changes radically. Scenic Express carries a large variety of people for any scene, residential, commercial or industrial. That's where I buy.