I seen different opinions about this. Where the layout butts up to a sheetrock/stud wall, is it better to leave a gap between the layout or wall screw the layout to the wall? Attaching it to the wall adds more mass and makes the layout more sturdy. However, are you then transmitting more layout noise through the wall?
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I was planning on doing this in a few weeks and didn’t even consider the noise transfer into the wall. I’ll be following this thread for everyone’s suggestions too.
When I was adding drywall to my basement, the wall studs had a horizontal 2x4 attached where I knew the layout table height would go; so I could attach the L-girder support to the wall.
I attached mine to the walls to give it extra strength when I put my benchwork together 7 years ago and it is rock-solid. I was also part of the crew that took down Marty Fitzhenry's layout, and his benchwork was also fastened to the walls.
Joe. I didn't and did. I would think it depends on how much your table construction weighs and how wide. I built my tables 4×8s 16 ft long 6feet wide forming a rectangle with access in the middle. That part of the system is solid. Then I built 2 crossovers to one wall making that table 2ft wide 6 ft long by 14 ft shaped in a L. That I did anchor to the wall . I have not noticed any issues with sound being transmitted through the wall. I also use cork under my track.
There are a lot of model railroaders who have shelf layout attached directly to the wall. The sound path though the wall attachment is long and each reduces the transmitted sound. The biggest issue would be reflected sound from the wallboard. That is a direct path.
I would think that unevenness of the wall would be a bigger issue. One would need to use a spacer between the layout and the wall stubs. Fastening to the wall would add a lot of rigidity to the whole layout.
Jan
IMHO- I don't think there would be a perceptible difference one way or the other. It's a question of wants and likes- do you want to overbuild your bench work to be self supporting, or screw a ledger board to the wall and attach the tops to it?
In your case Joe, since you insulated the walls and are up against the foundation, you should be fine. Concrete is very porous and will absorb a lot of the sound. Remember- the sound travels through the studs, not the cavity between.
I agree that the reflective sound as a train passes close to the wall would be more noticeable regardless of the construction method.
There are sound insulating pads on the market that would reduce the transmission of noise but to what effect I can't say. You could sandwich something like these between the wall and bench too.
Just my $.02 but, assuming your layout is stable, level and built rock solid anyway (which I'm sure it will be), I don't know of any advantage to fastening it to an abutting wall and, as has been mentioned there is a least one potential downside, so I wouldn't attach it.
If your benchwork is stable without needing to screw it to the wall, then I don't see a need to do so. My modular layout has four legs per module and each leg can be individually leveled. I have never attached to a wall.
My layout prior to that was attached to the wall, but I over-built that layout by a huge factor. I never really thought that one through, but it was effectively residential level structural construction. It wasn't like I was supporting furniture on it! 
Attached... eliminated eight legs and I can walk on it. It's in the attic over the kitchen & living room. Sound cars, whistles, horns, crew/tower talk and dead silence downstairs.
Basement wall attachment, no sound goes upward into the other living spaces.
saves supports, as a former structural engineer, I think that is a good solution.
I have a hinged bridge between two tables. Fastening them to the wall helps in maintaining the alignment even with the guides. Tables do get bumped and lean against.
Jan
Attached. My thought was i would not need legs for any section that matched up to the wall. I have an around the wall 28x18, save a lot of legs. The majority of my sections are 8x4, so saved a lot of legs.
My buddy attached one side of his layout to the wall in the basement and that part had major expansion and contraction issues. I think circumstances are unique to each basement but that scared me enough to just let my layout float along the walls instead.
When I redid my layout in my basement I angle braced all my tables and fasten the tables to the wall with brace coming off the wall stud just above the floor. When I redid my basement prior to the layout tables. I built the walls but I faced the studs and had a company come and spray foamed the cement walls. It saved on heating my basement but also helped to quiet all the noise from trains, tv, or normal conversation. I do believe that you can spray foam your own walls with a kit they now have. I also used Homosote for all my table tops. All you can hear are my engines running and the click of the rails, I have gargraves track throughout.
I used ready made steel brackets lag bolted into the studs for my layout. I didn't even think of sound transmission there. However, when I got to the point to lay the wood for the table on it, I discovered all of the brackets tilted slightly towards the wall. I bought some composite rubber-like shims to put between the tops of the brackets and the wall to make things level. I do not think I really notice any more noise transmission than if I had done it differently. The track is all laid on Homasote and cork.
The walls in the finished part of my basement are framed 6" inside of the concrete walls but they do attach to the first floor joists. That room above is our living room which my wife has turned into her quilting space. She is very supportive of my hobby but at the same time I didn't want the noise to be an issue. I went back and forth in my mind about attaching to the wall on two sides. I couldn't really know if noise was going to be an issue until I got things built enough to start running trains, it was a bit of a gamble. So far it is working. I rarely run faster than 25 - 35 smph so it kind of sounds like the wind is blowing outside when I stand in her quilting space.
I totally agree with Dan, you just don't know how loud or quiet it will be until you actually do it. On my small layout, I run trains slower than Dan. The speed of the trains is a factor no matter what method you use.
If you do fasten framing directly to the wall consider using shims in pairs at the low spots so at to retain a parallel mating surface.
On my own RR I used concrete sleeve bolts, Tap-cons and premium urethane adhesive to mount 2" x 4" x 32" studs for the knee foundation on 32" centers. 2 and 3 rail trains on cork and Homasote and modules run over these modules and knees with out any appreciable noise.
Poly adhesive for the wall. Two sleeve
studs for top of 2 x 4 two Tap-cons for the lower edge. This system has been holding 220# on modules projecting 4' off the wall for many years. 4' wall shelves are not the best design but you gotta do what you gotta for the RR space that you need.
The blue tape is for resetting the tripod for different curves
Easement
Just to add a bit to @Tom Tee's shim recommendation, don't assume the walls in your house are plum and square. I found the long wall my layout attaches to is almost 3/4" out of square over 20'. A decent laser level on a tripod really helps.
When it comes to leveling, especially when attaching to the walls, it helps to mark the walls with a measurement up from the floor for your target height. Use a level to figure out the highest mark and level the rest to this. And just like the walls, the floor won't be completely flat and level.
On my bench work jobs I use a tripod mounted 360 degree laser to establish a datum or waterline, then leave reference marks on all attachment points plus fixtures such as pipes, ducts, columns, jambs, etc.
I built around the walls
And I use different styles of brackets to attach based on the location
Yes, there is some movement in my shelves-but that adds realism😁
And I like the sound of the trains rumbling-but it’s not that much.
here’s a look at the whole
MISC
And here’s the latest operating action
@turkey_hollow_rr posted:Just to add a bit to @Tom Tee's shim recommendation, don't assume the walls in your house are plum and square. I found the long wall my layout attaches to is almost 3/4" out of square over 20'. A decent laser level on a tripod really helps.
When it comes to leveling, especially when attaching to the walls, it helps to mark the walls with a measurement up from the floor for your target height. Use a level to figure out the highest mark and level the rest to this. And just like the walls, the floor won't be completely flat and level.
That is for sure. Growing up in a house built in 1888 and helping Dad with things there until we sold it two years ago proved that. Even our 1968 house is far from plumb and square. At least I don't feel so bad when my 'carpentry' doesn't come out plum and square.
The cold blanket of reality is that in many cases every aspect of every trade constructing your home is done by the lowest bidder.
Lowest bidders are highly skilled in cutting corners so that shoddy workmanship will not fail or be discovered until the other side of settlement.
Based on what I've learned from the home theater hobby, sound transmission is a bigger deal in the empty cavities in the wall rather than transmitted through the screws attaching to the wall. The wall would only vibrate I would think if your layout board is vibrating significantly. You could put insulation (pink fluffy or sound insulating) in your wall cavities to reduce sound transmission, as well as acoustic tiles rather than drywall in the ceiling (if you are in a basement).
A good solid core door on the layout room would help with sound transmission also. Generally, a home theater is built with a solid core door and framed with insulation in every cavity so there are no empty cavities to resonate. Theater has to deal with low frequency noise (ie subwoofers) which I wouldn't think is a problem for model railroads.
Pennsylvania, (several years ago), a lot/not all communities, adopted the provided UCC. Universal Construction Code.
40 Years ago, the only (residential) trades, where there were inspectors, were plumbing and electrical.
Today there is, at the minimum, a 12 point inspection list, and several inspections of new housing, and some older/larger remodel projects. The UCC inspection list is usually kept on site, in a waterproof container, possible attached to the temporary electric service. There are also approved drawings, (architectural, plumbing, electrical), part of the UCC permit material. Big brother is watching. IMO, Mike CT.
If this is in a basement, you don't want trapped air. Dark trapped air pockets, lead to mold, even with a dehumidifier running. I would leave a gap between the wall and the layout and also a gap between the floor and skirting you may install to hide what's stored under the layout. That way air can move by means of convection or the fan in your dehumidifier. I would also consider the same if it's built upstairs so that the air movement from baseboard heat or air ducts isn't restricted.
@Mark Boyce posted:That is for sure. Growing up in a house built in 1888 and helping Dad with things there until we sold it two years ago proved that. Even our 1968 house is far from plumb and square. At least I don't feel so bad when my 'carpentry' doesn't come out plum and square.
Mark, our house is exactly 20 years old and things aren't really square, even though it is well built by today's standards. They don't have to be perfectly square when you think about it.
Tom Tee
Tom,
I noticed in your photos that you used a substantial offset for your easements. What is the radius and offset in the photo?
Earl
Attaching the layout to the wall eliminates support legs. Legs are the bane of model railroading when running wiring, locating switch machines, and just working under the layout in general. They also reduce the amount of available storage under the layout. Most of my modeling friends and I store empty boxes and other stuff under our layouts. People put skirts around their layouts to hide the junk that is underneath.
Track noise will not be a problem if you use cork or another sound deadening material beneath the tracks. The biggest noise problem is not the track sound but the loud steam chuffing and diesel engine sounds generated by modern sound systems in engines. I have to turn those systems off or the volume way down. Having easy access to the underside of the layout is a more important consideration than noise in most cases. My layout is attached to the walls. NH Joe
Earl, That is a one off easement due to physical restraints.
On a 72" radius curve I typically use a 7/8" off set with an 36" easement centered on the theoretical end of the fixed radius curve. Armstrong's R/2 - L/2 guidelines.
There are an assortment of templates I use for radii from 48" through to 76 5/16". With a radius of 72", 4 5/16" is the NMRA suggested centerline for class 1 RR.
There were only to be two bridges crossing that valley but two bridges became three and three bridges became four so stuff happened.
Here are some of the templates I use:
The blue tape is for indexing overlaped template positions for small degree curves where you need to ease out of a curve you just barely entered. Telescoping multiple same radius templates trombone style can yield better centerlines than a pencil on graph paper. Many times I wind up using just a portion of a template.
The 2' level provides C/L for the tangent of the template. C/L on Homasote barely visible above lower left corner.
The centerline provides a guide for split road bed. The split of the roadbed provides C/L for the flex track.
Curves from templates
What paint / sealer product did you use to paint your concrete basement walls ?
How has it held up over time ?
Thanks in advance !!!
Waterproof painting of walls only addresses the last barrier point of moisture entering a residence.
In my experience as a residential contractor over 42 years my impression is that the North East U.S. basements will at one time or another, leak to one degree or another.
The trick is to asses the homes exterior. Make sure the ground is properly graded away from the foundation. Check condition of the rain gutters to ensure they have leaf guards and are clear with extended downspout discharge and well planed swales which can handle severe weather.
Additionally, I had a custom Bilco door made to ensure rain protection of the outside basement entry plus replaced a concrete patio which redirected rain runoff.
Then on the inside my approach bypassed wall sealer due in part to no real evidence of a moisture problem.
French drains, multiple crocks, 110 and 12 volt sump pumps. Did not need them but why not?
We shopped for three years to find this, our final home. On each initial walk through I used moisture meters to check on the percentage of moisture in the open joists plus my wife's olfactory system can detect even the hint of mold or mildew.
Turns out this house was built by a builder as his personal residence so I might not be a good source for providing how to address weeping walls.
As far as wall painting...true confessions...I took all the left over paint from our former home and filled two five gallon Lowe's paint cans then took them to Lowe's on a slow weekday morning and had them add corrective tint to make the sky blue upper half and the off gray lower half. 1600 sq ft of wall surface. No blistering or failure over the years with junk paint.
It was their paint and their buckets so the tinting was complimentary.
Been here since 2007 and only had a freak leak during the hurricane Sandy ten years ago which prompted a complete regrading of our front yard to provide a chevron swale to redirect excess runoff to the property lines.
Tom knows very well. You really have to stop the water from the outside. I have one of those New England basements but my house is only 20 years old so it was all modern construction.
Our builder addressed this when the foundation was first poured. He installed a 4" perforated perimeter drain pipe just below the footers and excavated a grade sloping down toward the drain pipe. The front and side exterior foundation walls were covered with a thick black sealant. It's a walkout basement so not much to do on the backside of the house. The pipe was covered with gravel and the rest was filled in with sand and some loam over the top. Any ground water moving through will drop into the drain that empties about 25 yards down the hill from the back yard.
There is nothing on the inside of the foundation walls. If we get a really hard, driving rain from the south there are one or two places where you can see moisture working its way through some cracks but its just a wet spot on the wall.
There was also a moisture barrier installed before the basement floor was poured. The 20 year old carpet on the finished side was glued down over the concrete with no pads. Parts that get little or no traffic look as good as they did when the carpet was installed.
The Panhandle is attached to the basement walls. It adds stability and eliminated a whole set of legs.
George
As to the original question, it is a matter of personal preference as you can see by the numerous answers people gave. As a retired carpenter who has worked on houses from many era. However you do it it is more important to have it look right when you are done. Especially regarding having it be level and plumb. You can painstakingly work to make what ever you build plumb and level then stand back and look at your work only to have it look like it is out of plumb/level because what you are building next to is not. As a rule of thumb try to work with paralell lines as opposed to putting the emphasis on level and plumb. It is not an easy sell to tell someone their house is crooked to defend why the work you did for them looks out of place in their house, or when you are showing off your layout in this case to friends. My $.02
Dan
When I added my yard extension, I screwed that to the wall to prevent it from moving around, it's only 12 x 3, and supported by eight legs. Before attaching it to the wall, I could see that it could move. It's also sitting on a ceramic tile floor, which doesn't give it much friction to keep it from moving.
My main layout benchwork, OTOH, is not attached to the walls. Given the fact that it's 12 x 24 and really heavy overall, it does not move, and even with a couple of us pushing on it, so I don't think it needs to be attached to the wall. I would mention my layout is on carpet and it's sitting on many toothed "pucks" for support.
@CBQ_Bill posted:What paint / sealer product did you use to n your concrete basement walls ?
How has it held up over time ?
I have successfully been using UGL Drylock Latex-Based Paint/Sealer for over 40 years on many basements. (In the old days, UGL used a noxious non-latex formulation but the latex version is holding up well.) For live leaks I use UGL Drylock hydraulic cement.
As most everyone above as stated, the critical aspects of keeping a dry basement are:
a. Sloped grading
b. Clean gutters with downspout system pushing water away from house. French-drain system in difficult situations to move outside water away from house.
c. Coating on outside basement walls. (The builder should have already done that.)
d. Drain tiles under basement slab connected to sump-pump well. These same drain tiles are used as part of a radon removal system if required.
e. Window-well covers
f. In areas known to constantly flood (e.g. northside Chicago) a sewage anti-backflow valve prevents water from entering basement from drains or toilets.
@Mark Boyce posted:That is for sure. Growing up in a house built in 1888 and helping Dad with things there until we sold it two years ago proved that. Even our 1968 house is far from plumb and square. At least I don't feel so bad when my 'carpentry' doesn't come out plum and square.
My son’s farm house was built in 1958… the kitchen is 3” out of square. 
My layout is attached to the wall as I wanted to minimize leg support. The main peninsula is also attached to the wall and supported by six legs. The floor is concrete and the legs rest on a 3/32 rubber gasket. The base is very solid, stable and with additional help from Homasote and cork road bed, nose transmission is not a problem.
Cheers, Dave
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Belt sand the wall
Inverted knees for the valley
