Seeking Feedback on Layout Base

It is a sound idea.....pun intended.....LOL   Seriously though, with both of those materials under your track, you should not hear anything but the sound of steel wheels on steel track.  You won't hear the roar of steel wheels on bare plywood.  

Thanks Dan, appreciate the vote of confidence.

I should add that I’m using Gargraves track with roofing granules to remove the drum effect. That I know works. 

Hello Steve,

I like what you have suggested and will look at these materials for my layout when I get to that point of assembly.

Here’s how I see installation working. 

1. Lay down Quiet Walk
2. Lay down track
3. Glue something eco friendly under track
4. Take off track
5. Lay down EcoRug
6. Spray glue light green and brown foam where track and buildings won’t be
7. Lay down track
8. Wire track
9. Test
10. Glue N-Gauge cork around outside edges of track
11. Glue in roofing granules
12. Tack EcoRug under table to hide edges
13. Have a Bourbon County Stout
14. Run trains

One thing you should consider is how those two materials will take to being drilled through for placement of trees, telephone poles, etc.

Some products, like felt, shred and catch drill bits and twist and can be a pita to drill through.

Fair point. Both products say they won’t tear. I’m not sure what that really means when you drill through it though. Plus the idea of fitting the tree into the perfect sized hole in the plywood isn’t thrilling. 

Thanks for the feedback. I’ll noodle on this awhile. 

You could always put a 3/4" or 1" inch rigid foam board from Lowes or HD on top of the plywood with construction adhesive. Tape any seams and then paint earth brown and, while still wet, sprinkle with green and yellow fine turf and when dry, spray the turf with a high hold hair spray - instant layout. Roads and streets can be masked off with duct tape before painting and go back with flat black or silver concrete paint. The foam holds accessories very well. 

If you are looking at a flat table layout then the approach sounds solid (I agree about drilling through it, you may want to get a sample of both materials, lay it onto a scrap piece of wood, and see how easy it is to drill through). 

I did something different, I went with 1/4" plywood over a ladder frame, and then flue 4" of the blue foam on top of it. I wanted  to be able to do below track level contours (water, rivers, an abandoned rail line that goes under the real tracks), and to me this was the easiest way to do it (I could have gone open grid but  I have never worked with that, was a little intimidated with the cutting involved).  Could be I'll be cursing at it, will let everyone know

The foam works, I’ve used it on my last 2 layouts. But it’s not eco-friendly. You can’t recycle it and many landfills refuse to take it. 

I’m looking for another way. Plus I would like to be a consumer of recycled/reused materials if possible. 

ChiTown Steve posted:

Here’s how I see installation working. 

1. Lay down Quiet Walk
2. Lay down track
3. Glue something eco friendly under track
4. Take off track
5. Lay down EcoRug
6. Spray glue light green and brown foam where track and buildings won’t be
7. Lay down track
8. Wire track
9. Test
10. Glue N-Gauge cork around outside edges of track
11. Glue in roofing granules
12. Tack EcoRug under table to hide edges
13. Have a Bourbon County Stout
14. Run trains

I agree with 2, 8, 9, 13,14, &13.

The rest sounds like too much work!   

You have your priorities in the right place. 👍

Mixed Freight posted:

ChiTown Steve posted:

Here’s how I see installation working. 

1. Lay down Quiet Walk
2. Lay down track
3. Glue something eco friendly under track
4. Take off track
5. Lay down EcoRug
6. Spray glue light green and brown foam where track and buildings won’t be
7. Lay down track
8. Wire track
9. Test
10. Glue N-Gauge cork around outside edges of track
11. Glue in roofing granules
12. Tack EcoRug under table to hide edges
13. Have a Bourbon County Stout
14. Run trains

I agree with 2, 8, 9, 13,14, &13.

The rest sounds like too much work!   

Needs more 13. Like... Every other step should be a 13. Maybe 2 13's at once? A 26!

Got it - will you be using eco-friendly plywood and framing lumber only sourced from sustainable forests ? That would be the way to go !!

SteamWolf posted:

Mixed Freight posted:

ChiTown Steve posted:

Here’s how I see installation working. 

1. Lay down Quiet Walk
2. Lay down track
3. Glue something eco friendly under track
4. Take off track
5. Lay down EcoRug
6. Spray glue light green and brown foam where track and buildings won’t be
7. Lay down track
8. Wire track
9. Test
10. Glue N-Gauge cork around outside edges of track
11. Glue in roofing granules
12. Tack EcoRug under table to hide edges
13. Have a Bourbon County Stout
14. Run trains

I agree with 2, 8, 9, 13,14, &13.

The rest sounds like too much work!   

Needs more 13. Like... Every other step should be a 13. Maybe 2 13's at once? A 26

Rule G in my world stands for Guzzle  

Richie C. posted:

Got it - will you be using eco-friendly plywood and framing lumber only sourced from sustainable forests ? That would be the way to go !!

Lowes a plywood is SFI Sustainable Forest Initiative.  I’ll need 2 4x8’s. The rest comes from reuse of my previous 2 layouts. 

Thanks for mentioning the sustainable forest idea. 😄 🌲

I think it would be great if someone undertook a project to build the most eco-friendly O scale train layout possible and documented it's progress. It would make a good article for OGR magazine, as well !

I agree. As the world view towards sustainability grows so do the materials that are available. It’s not that hard, as I’m finding, to build a layout from recyclable/reusable materials. 

I still haven’t found a way to plant trees yet. There are plenty of foam replacements but they are expensive for a train layout. I can put something under the EcoRug to plant the tree into. But then every tree is on a hill? Meh

Richie C. posted:

I think it would be great if someone undertook a project to build the most eco-friendly O scale train layout possible and documented it's progress. It would make a good article for OGR magazine, as well !

KEN-OSCALE has built dozens, if not hundreds, of eco-friendly layouts.  They're all stored on his computer's hard drive.  You just can't get more eco-friendly than that.

For everything else, an eco-friendly O scale train layout is just an environmentalist's "day"-dream fantasy.  When I look at my layouts (yes, I have more than one), I don't see a single thing on them that isn't burnable, buryable, or recyclable.  And that's without each and every manufacturer having claimed that their product was eco-friendly at the time I purchased the stuff.

My honest OPINION only, everyone else's may vary.  

@ThomasT posted:

Hello Steve,

I like what you have suggested and will look at these materials for my layout when I get to that point of assembly.

Thomas, The Quietwalk really works. I put two layers under the track which is really overkill. One layer reduces the sound a ton. 

It is a pain to drill through as the fibers attach to the drill bit. I found if I drill a small hole first, then a bigger one it helps reduce it. 

All my  G.G. tracks are placed over a FELT roadbed. Under each door skin module is carpet padding. The room is also carpeted. I get just enough sound for my set-up. This works for me. Room acoustics play a large part, there is no scientific method or perfect way to do this. 

It’s all personal preference based on the individuals hearing. Don’t over think it.

@ChiTown Steve posted:

Thomas, The Quietwalk really works. I put two layers under the track which is really overkill. One layer reduces the sound a ton. 

It is a pain to drill through as the fibers attach to the drill bit. I found if I drill a small hole first, then a bigger one it helps reduce it. 

Before drilling, punch a hole with an awl, or make a + sign with the point of a utility knife.  If you still have to drill, this will reduce the amount of fibers that the bit catches.

@Mallard4468 posted:

Before drilling, punch a hole with an awl, or make a + sign with the point of a utility knife.  If you still have to drill, this will reduce the amount of fibers that the bit catches.

Perfect! Thank you I will do that. 

@SIRT posted:

All my  G.G. tracks are placed over a FELT roadbed. Under each door skin module is carpet padding. The room is also carpeted. I get just enough sound for my set-up. This works for me. Room acoustics play a large part, there is no scientific method or perfect way to do this. 

It’s all personal preference based on the individuals hearing. Don’t over think it.

For sure room acoustics play a big part. My last layout I hung black terry cloth to hide the concrete walls. It had the side affect of knocking down the noise level a lot. 

I’ll do something similar with my new one. First things first. 😄

Acoustical engineer here.  We call this noise control.  

Looking at this from a noise control perspective, best practices in order of most to least effective include: 

1) Reduce noise generated at source:  Assuming your main noise sources are train rolling noise and track joints, placing a resilient (i.e. squishy) material under the tracks will reduce noise transmitted into your base through damping.  Resilient materials include carpet, neoprene, thick fabric, etc.  EPS board typically used for scenery is not considered resilient.  Effectiveness will vary based on type of track, mounting method (glue vs. screw), base material (more mass is better), framing of the base, and resilient material.  If the resilient material is over loaded, it will "critically compress" and provide no effective isolation.  Ideally the resilient material would be selected based on the average mass of the loaded train and track, i.e. 3 lbs / sq ft.  

2) Attenuate the noise transmission path: This includes placing a barrier between the noise source and listener.  Since building a concrete block wall around the train layout would also block the desired sound effects and viewing, options are limited. 

3) Room Acoustics: The finishes in your train room affect the decay (or reverberation in large spaces) of sound. Carpet, upholstered furniture, drapes, etc. will absorb sound and reduce the build up of reflected sound to provide an overall lower sound level.  The thicker / heavier the material, the better the low frequency absorption.  Acoustical tile ceilings are very effective.  

I am not aware of any lab measurements of the various track and layout construction methods to provide useful data for design purposes.  If sound is a big concern, a small test loop with the selected materials should be built to evaluate prior to purchasing and building a layout.  

To address the initial question, using floor underlayment below the track would likely address item 1 above, coating the entire layout with carpet may help with item 3, assuming the carpet is not covered with a hard scenery shell.  The floor underlayment is typically used for increased Impact Isolation Class (IIC) of floor / ceiling assemblies when hardwood flooring is desired above occupied spaces.  

Thanks for the explanation.  Very good info. I guess putting down 2 layers of sound insulation was a good idea after all. 😄

One thing to keep in mind in this discussion is that  noise control is one goal in whatever road bed we put under the track.  Appearance is part of it too.  Real train tracks are often built up for drainage, so some of the usual road bed products in the hobby seek to control noise while providing a realistic appearance.  I too am looking at carpet pad type solutions, but appearance is an issue.

Bill