Self Coupling Air Hose

Big Jim. I love the action with the hoses. Thanks for sharing. Terry

Now that is cool.  Thanks Jim.

See the January 2009 issue of OST (#42 - available as a free download) for Ben Brown's article on how to make working air hoses.

I tried this, this is the problem I had.  The magnets stuck together so hard that the hoses would not pull apart and the car stay in one spot.  Really looked cool but the cars wouldn't come apart.  I have a whole package of tiny rare earth magnets left.

Indeed Ben Brown was ahead of his time...very creative and clever. I've seen them in operation on Bens railroad too...excellent!

Ken,

Sorry to hear it didn't work for you. I suspect the recipe was not followed exactly. The only fellow I have heard from who had a similar problem to what you report, had fairly lightweight rolling stock where the magnet strength was greater than the car's inertia. The solution there was to coat the magnet with either epoxy or high voltage varnish that is used in electronic applications. The coating cuts down on the magnet strength.

My friend Matt Forsyth also added a file to the yahoo P48 group site files that has a further explanation and excellent photos. Try the coating and if it doesn't work, I'd be glad to take the magnets off your hands.

Regards,  Ben

Ben,

Thanks for the reply.  I havent given up on the project yet.  It is now a back burner thing.  I am still using the soft rubber for my air line with the idea that I will make the magnet thing work some day.  Other projects have overshadowed this one right now.

Thanks for publishing the project.

Ken

quote:

The magnets stuck together so hard that the hoses would not pull apart and the car stay in one spot.

Ken must have used some strong magnets as the video above is HO stuff and as you can see they separate quite nicely.

Works like a charm.  

Larry

Ben,

Are those magnets powerful enough to operate a reed switch, say, for chuff sounds?

Big Jim;

Most magnets will work, the critical thing is not the magnet but the spacing of the magnet to the reed switch. Got to get it close. Very Close is better.

Magnetic force drops off very fast over distance. Much faster than the standard radio propagation of double distance = 1/4 the power.

More like logarithmic or parabolic curve dropoff.

Jim,

The magnets are extremely powerful. I suspect you would have to try a few samples for your application. Take a look at the variety offered.

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/

The ones I used for the air hoses are 1/32 thick and 1/16 in diameter.

The type that you presented on the video is intriguing. I tried to look, but apparently the company does not have a website and do not have a product description. The whole idea is basic physics and many parameters must be met to achieve good reliability. Playing with magnets is pure fun. 

Regards,  Ben

Ben & Russell,

Thanks for the info.

Keeping a magnet thin enough to mount to the back of a driver and clear the frame is of first importance and then mounting the reed switch close enough to activate the circuit.

Ben,

Have you ever dabbled in using magnets mounted on engines and cabs to operate road crossing signals/gates?

Jim,

I do not use magnets for activation of my signal system. I would assume that would be difficult to control. Instead I have always used Integrated Signal Sytems solid state electronics, very reliable.

Note that you have started a new thread, so if you wish to talk signals further, you need to change the subject title.

Regards,  Ben

Very clever! But the uncoupling is manual.

Well I'm home now and have checked my Magnets.  They are Magcraft Super Strong Magnets.  Maybe I should have looked for the less than super strong or almost super strong magnets. 

I will try putting a coat of CA over them or something.

Thanks for you help Ben

Well after watching the vidoe and reading the article, I went and ordered everything from the article. This is a cool idea. I love stuff like this for my trains. Anything to make it more real.

When I showed my wife she called me a train dork. Kidding around of corse.

Thanks for the idea

Ralph

I left a forum web page up one time and my wife announced to everyone on the forum that I was a dork.  You have to watch them.

Now that we know where 2 get the magnets cheap, anyone know where 2 get the hose cheap as well?

anyone know where 2 get the hose cheap as well?

try pulling the wire out of insulation of black #20-#22 gauge hookup wire

In the O scale Trains article Ben used Larva Lace. It's used for tying flies. I found it pretty cheap on a couple of sites. Just google it. I don't live to far from a Cabellas so I might tak a ride today. It also comes in different diameters. The diameter would depend on whose glad hands you have.

Ralph

www.flyandrod.com

This is where I got mine.  Much softer than any tubing that I have seen. Looks great even if you are not using the magnets.

I'd like to summarize some things about this idea. When the idea was first published in O Scale Trains back in 2009 I had done quite a bit of experimenting in order to select materials that worked well. That is still my recommendation. If you choose to deviate from the recommended materials, you are on your own.

There are several resouces now on the web. Dave's blog up above shows his experience. Matt Forsyth's work as well as my own are in the Files section of the P48 Modeler Yahoo group.

As was noted above, while prototype in appearance, this idea is not for everyone. If one is using the Kadee couplers, the curved steel pin must be cut off. This then means that the couplers must be uncoupled by using a manual pick from above. This is not easy to do if the couplers are any distance away. Old guys with bifocals take note. In general then this idea works if the uncoupling zones are near the layout edge where one can both reach and see. As I indicated above, I was after a complete system which included coupler choice. One reason I chose the Protocraft design was that I could uncouple them using a magnetic wand that did not have to contact the coupler body.

The magnet strength is a key to success. Folks who have used other than what I recommended often have problems in getting the hoses to release without moving the uncoupled car. The air hose material is essential. Chris mentioned stripping wire insulation material. While trying to be helpful, I doubt if he has actually tried this idea. Wire insulation varies greatly in resiliency and I don't think you will ever match the softness of the Larva Lace tubing. The LL tubing also has a natural curl which looks good and can be biased toward the track centerline. Matt Forsyth mentioned this in his experiments. Length of the tubing is also important to achieve proper action. Cars usually are in the 5/8ths range, locos are sometimes shorter. It also depends on car length.

I usually use both brass angle cocks and glad hands because they look great and are also included with the couplers that I purchase. The magnet is glued into the pocket of the glad hand with a good quality ACC such as Sinbad. I've never had one come out. The original article showed an alternate of simplying gluing the magnet on the end of the hose and then overcoating the magnet with epoxy to make sort of a nondistinct blob. This also works but is not as sharp looking.

As was mentioned above, if the magnets are oriented face to face and the polarity is correct, they will join face to face. However if the polarity is opposite, the magnets will still join but will meet edge to edge. At a normal viewing distance this is not noticeable, but some will object. I once had a manufacturer contact me about the idea and then he decided against it due to the potential complaints about the occasional mismatch. He seemed to feel that model railroaders are a somewhat complaint oriented bunch. Imagine that!

Regards,

Ben Brown

Ben,

Thanks for the run down.  I read your article in 09 and it stuck in my mind as something I wanted to do.  Before the article I already cut the "air hose" off of the Kadees because I thought it was a terrible representation of an air hose.

A few years later my local hobby shop starting carrying the magnets I purchased.  To be truthful I never went back and looked at the article just plowed forward with the project. 

I am going to go back and pick up a package of the magnets you have recommended and try again. 

Thanks again for the great idea

it's true I have not used wire insulation in this application. I defer to Ben's demonstrated good judgement, and results.

I installed Ben's self coupling air hose's on 4-Lionel Milk cars. I keep these cars as a set and like the look. I had similar problems with the magnet pulling the car but once I added weight (Ben's idea) to each car they work well....With the cars run as a set, I don't have to worry about magnet polarity. Personally, Ben's idea is a good piece of Imagineering

Thanks Ben...

Dennis