Sequencing Circuit Needed

What did you find on eBay, got a link?  You might be able to drive a signal relay from the outputs of the later LED's on the one you found.

This is the link for one. Actually I believe the ones I found are all the same just different colored led's.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-Se...;hash=item5ade2f057c

I believe the eBay module can be modified to suit your needs.  From what I can tell, it cycles through 10 LEDs and repeats.  Let's call them LED #1 to #10.  Suppose you hook up your 4 LED pairs to #2, #3, #4, and #5.  As GRJ suggests, you can replace #6 with a circuit to momentarily activate your relay.  You then use the #7 output to reset the sequence back to #1 and stop (until you push the start button again).  That is, #1 is the waiting "state" when nothing is active. 

All this requires some slight modification to the board, possibly cutting some printed-wires - not difficult to do but can be tedious if you have aging eyes.  It would mean adding maybe 2 IC chips (like the black component in the center of the board), a few resistors, a diode or two, and maybe a transistor.  The additional parts are inexpensive - say, $5 total.

As with any idea, at some point it degenerates into work.  If you're interested, the next step would be to post the schematic that comes with the kit and I for one (and probably GRJ and others) can suggest how it can be modified.  You also need to be specific about the LEDs you have, your relay, your power source, etc.

I found this modular circuit that I think would do the job. It seams simple enough. Most I found use IC's and are just a little too complex for me.

http://www.redcircuits.com/Page72.htm

For those in the know, I have a couple of questions. (on the assumption this is what I need).

First does the feed back from the last module to the first cause it to repeat the sequence? And if so can this be eliminated so the sequence runs only once until button is depressed again?

Second, I need to illuminate two led's at a time. Could 2 led's be wired in parallel in place of the single? Or would I need two sets of modules in parallel?

Third, if all above is workable, could I use a small relay, (in place of led) in the last module?

And Last, If I read all this stuff correctly, other circuit descriptions as well, the rate the cycles can be altered by changing the value of the cap, yes........?

I built a similar type of circuit many years ago, with hot wire relays and latching relays (I believe) to cycle lamps in an old traffic signal hanging in my garage. Of course in that case I did want the cycle to repeat until power was turned off. I used to be pretty fair at designing circuits, (standard electrical) with electro mechanical devices. But when it comes to electronics, "I just don't have the lingo.... I'm an idiot"

1. yes, the feedback is to loop the circuit, eliminating the feedback would make the circuit run once and then stop.

2. Two LED's in series works for this circuit, if you want them in parallel for some reason, you just need some small equalizing resistors to insure even illumination.

3. Yep, a relay instead of the lamps is not a problem.  You can also change the time for the relay activation by changing the value of the capacitor.

I'd probably personally do this with the Arduino microprocessor, since I could have it working on my bench in less than an hour, but this should work.

a

Really?  That's a profound statement.

John,

I thought "Arduino" too!

Wondering how this is going to be used....I could see it as a drag racing Christmas tree setup.  Push the button, the lights count down, then the relay applies power to two parallel tracks at the same time... and they're off!

Ed

I believe someone posted about a light tree for a drag strip some time back in the forum, that would be one use.   I guess the relay launches the cars?

The question is, who brings the cars back?

Sorry, grj. that post was an error.  "a".    i messed it up somehow.   im the one who posted about a "drag strip christmas tree circuit" a while back.     im still trying to work that out.  BUT, can you tell me what relay i would use with these ?  RE: third post by dlo traf !!

No apology necessary, just found it amusing.

As far as the relay, that would depend on the supply voltage.  For 12VDC supply, any common 12VDC coil relay would do the trick, it's not at all critical.  You could probably shop on price.

Note for the posted transistor circuit, if you break the feedback you'll need to supply a pull-up resistor to the first stage.

That's it exactly. Well almost.

My Grandson will bring the cars back. It is for a simplified drag christmas tree. The track will not be powered, but rather gravity......... a la Hot Wheels. I was watching him play with a Snake and Mongoose funny car set I got him last Christmas. It came out when I was a kid in the late 60's and Toys R Us rereleased the set several years ago. It was really kind of mickey mouse. So I decided I'd build him a nice starting ramp complete with tree, and sound. Instead of a button he will pull a shifter, complete with knob to start the tree. The relay will activate a solonoid that will pull down the pins that hold the cars at the line. The original finish line had a plastic checkered flag that would fall into the winners lane, (when it actually worked). I found a some photo electric beams cheap from China those and a couple of relays will display a win light to the correct lane only. He really loves his cars and trains. He's 4 now. There's a little more to it, such as funny car sound robbed from a Mighty Machines rc car.

Sounds like a really cool thing, you have a lucky kid that's getting this!

I was a track photographer at Lebanon Valley dragstrip in NY back when Don and Tom raced there.  Used to kneel about 10' in front of the Christmas tree and take pictures from there... LOUD!!!!

I think a set of drag racing trains would be lots of fun.  Some of the clubs do races at their events.  I figure the first and last few sections of track are unpowered with the center on all the time at a set voltage.  The relay would apply the same voltage to the starting section and the trains would run until they hit the dead section at the end... a simple pushbutton would energize the reverse units to put the trains in reverse until they hit the powered center section (at a reduced voltage for backing up)

I would do it on my layout, but with only 12', the trains wouldn't have far to race!

http://ctt.trains.com/en/Opera...%20drag%20strip.aspx

Ed

Ok this is where I loose you and hear Greek....... Pull-up resistor? What value and where would I place in circuit?

Another question came to mind. I really should trip the relay and fourth light at the same time. Could I wire a small relay in series with the led? Or build another module just for the relay and parallel the last two modules? Lastly to adjust timing between sequences would I go up or down on cap value to shorten time between events?

See this is why I do not want to attempt a circuit with an IC chip. It's probably easier for you to make the circuit work that way, but you understand it. I could put a kit together but it would have to be designed to do exactly what I wanted, I would get way.........way.......way lost trying to modify it.

Yeah I can still remember it like yesterday. The smell of the rubber, and nitro. And the sound it would make the hair on the back of my neck stand on end. And the cars of today only put out over twice the horsepower........ I've been behind the starter between the lanes..........It's FREEKING AWSOME..................... And we had a 4 lane in Hollywood Florida. So you get two run and as soon as they hit the return road two more.

The drag trains would be neat. I hadn't thought of that. Although I did an Evil Knievel with a Lionel RS3. I was pulling about 10 PW cars and the loco coupler popped open two straights before a 90 deg curve, on the upper level track, I looked over to see it airborne. It launched itself and jumped about three and a half feet and then another three feet to the concrete floor. It runs again, but had to super glue and epoxy the motor/truck housing back together, NLA from Lionel.

My wife asked me, after I described this, if I thought he would appreciate this. I said he might not appreciate the effort, but would think it was awesome. He thinks the set he has now is cool. But not being a kid anymore I looked at it and thought how cool it could be, and how I would have gone nuts for something like that when I was a kid. They have made some really cool toys in the last 20 years, heck everything has a processor and chips in it now.......

Well he's home from school now, pre school, and bugging me to fix the wings on his jet plane. So I'd better go fick it, thats how he says it, for him.........

No reason the relay couldn't be wired with the last LED, that would work fine.

I'm not sure how those drag racing lights sequence, but I suggest you double-check that the proposed circuit does what the OP wants.  For example, make sure the final stage indeed puts out a momentary pulse to the solenoid so as not to drain excessive current.  Make sure the circuit initializes to the proper conditions that correctly passes the "ON" state down the line (as shown it is a string of inverters which may not be what he wants).  Show him where to put the momentary "start" button if that's what you are suggesting.  And don't forget to add a clamping diode to the relay drive to clamp any excessive back-emf spikes that might kill the transistor.

I was waiting for you to show him all that Stan.   Like I said, I'd do this with the Arduino as it would be very easy to accomplish with simple programming.

This type circuit was discussed before. The Arduino sure would work,it involves programming with a computer. I used to service and set up Allen Bradley logic controllers, so working with that stuff is too much like real work,and reminds me when I used to have a real job. 

I would use 4 relays and some capacitors. A similar circuit is used here to sequence a bell/whistle controller,however the spare relay contacts can be used to switch any type circuit,light LEDs, bulbs,whatever. You can also use capacitor discharge to light the LEDs,it gives them a fading effect when transitioning for one color to the next.  You could also add a timer to make the light sequence and repeat at a set interval and eliminate the pushbutton. 

http://www.jcstudiosinc.com/OG...AndWhistleController

You could also use 555 circuits.

Dale H

Dale,

Ok now this I understand, (mostly). I have modified your 4 relay circuit, (changed cap values to 500uf) and also added a hold relay. I assume looking at your original circuit power is applied until relay sequence ends. Now I think this will energise relays 2 thru 5 in sequence for aprox .5 seconds per relay. And power will be applied until relay 5 closes.

Hope this is legible. Do not have scanner anymore. Thanks for your input.

For the pushbutton you could use a 3PDT relay for the first really,make it self latching through one of its own contacts in series with a contact set on the last relay. I am not sure I know what you want to accomplish. 

Dale H

Although you can do this with relays, I really don't think that's the best solution.  I think Dale has a bit of the mindset that if you're a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Here's one of many pages that has a simple circuit with complete instructions to do this function: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_7/6.html

The first one on this page is build around incandescent bulbs and also can be expanded by simply adding stages: http://circuitelec.blogspot.co...quencer-circuit.html

I did not say it was the only or best solution,that is subjective,I said that is how I would do it. Some people,me included, do not like to do circuits on the chip level. I do it only when I have to.   It can be done easily with multi contact relays and some capacitors. It could be done very precisely with relays and timer modules,but the inaccuracies using the capacitors would be more prototypical if a human element was involved such as operating a tree at a drag strip. From my experiences at drag strips I can tell you,the lights did not always work exactly the same all the time, since a human operated the device. Lots of people blew engines and clutches in anticipation of an irregular light system. 

 I need to know the light sequence preferences to draw a circuit.  Not sure if all stay lighted as they go up the tree or he wants the them to sequence one by one where the preceding one goes off. Does the red always stay on when not in use or all they all off? Any of this can be done by wiring the contacts as needed. He also wants a relay to come on in the end briefly to power some other circuit.  Easy to do with capacitor discharge.

Not the only way,I understand that. 

Dale H

What I want to do is light 4 pairs of leds. One pair at a time. One pair on, first pair off next pair on. When the last pair lights also activate a relay.

I'm only after the look of a tree. Not exact replication. I will not have the operational red lights for a foul. I will just put some on the tree for looks. So I will light three ambers, (one pair at a time) then a green pair along with the relay.

I thought this would be simple, (what I get for thinking).

Well, technically, the lights stay on as each level triggers.  Like this:

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/nhraxtreesp.html

You can test your reaction time too!

Ed

Well it's been over 30 years since I sat behind a tree, and I couldn't remember for sure. That might be an easier circuit, don't know. But this is getting really complicated really fast. I actually just found something almost like I want to build for him, made for 1/64 cars. It even gives elapsed times. I'd have to make it sturdier, or install the guts into what I had planed to build.

You gotta remember my Grandson is 4. He won't know the diff. Only I will. I just want it to be fun for him, and cool. And give it some durability. Most of this stuff is cheap plastic and breaks easily even with normal play. I get kinda tired of him bringing stuff to me "Mister glue this"...... With the trains, we usually just let em run. He likes blowing the whistle, or horn. And he plays with cars and trucks on the outer portion of the layout. I've got some cheap lionel freight cars, and some prewar stuff that he plays in the floor with. I made him a dummy f a unit that he can push around on some track he puts together on the floor. He a little afraid to run the trains. They go too fast, so I have several engines that I basically made govenors for using strings of diodes to limit speed at wide open throttle.

Here's another one, even has the red light.

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/fo....php?showtopic=48419

Here's the diagram included from that page.

Thanks John. Looks like a neat project. It would have to be modified for my need, but I may build it anyway. May put a dragstrip on my layout, (starting area) and let the strip run off the layout. I have a couple GMP front engine dragsters. Or it would make a great sign post for a speed shop that I have in the planning stages. Or even as a window display in same shop.

Thanks MUCH, GRJ .    this is EXACTLY what is was looking for.

Boy, potentially two birds with one stone, I must be getting back in practice!