Shim #726-127 for Lionel 1947 Berkshire No. 726

hey Ed, that shim plate, as you mentioned, is very hard to find......the last couple of berks that I swapped the 23 tooth gear to the 25 tooth gear, I used four brass washers I got from ace hardware. they were just a hair thicker than the 726-127....so I ran the washers back and forth on a piece of emery cloth with a little water (so I don't burn my finger tips) until I got a good mesh on the gears. I actually like this method better cause I could fine tune the mesh I was looking for....I used 4 washers, 1 under each mount screw and one under each alignment pin. later, some 736 berks had some thin shims under the motor, but they  are so thin it would take a stack of them to get it close.....hope this helps....I have been there before...that plate shim is hard to find.

Thanks for the info. Sounds like a good option to consider if I can't locate the shims. Appreciate your suggestion. 

Ed

Been down that road before.  I have used a variety of washers from motor armatures from 2028 motors, most part guys have them...

Marty

Thanks Marty.  I do have some of those washers.  Another option to consider when I get the opportunity to work on it some time soon.  Appreciate the feedback.

Ed

hey Ed, that shim plate, as you mentioned, is very hard to find......the last couple of berks that I swapped the 23 tooth gear to the 25 tooth gear, I used four brass washers I got from ace hardware. they were just a hair thicker than the 726-127....so I ran the washers back and forth on a piece of emery cloth with a little water (so I don't burn my finger tips) until I got a good mesh on the gears


I've been curious about that shim for a while. I've never seen one.
I guess it's just a flat plate with no taper.
Anybody have a thickness measurement on them?

some 736 berks had some thin shims under the motor

I've looked for these shims too, but have never found any.
I've made my own out of sheet plastic stock. (metal shim stock would probably be better)

This is the 726-127. It measures 0.0185" thick, probably a sheet steel gauge size. It is steel and appears to be zinc plated. 

David....thanks for the info!....im gonna jot that measurement down in my service manual .......thats awesome!

You can use one 726-127 shim or two 6108049099 shims.

Thanks for the specifications, the pictures, and the substitute part number.
My favorite parts dealers don't have the modern era shim (610-8049-99)
I looked up sheet metal gauges.
I did not realize that the actual thickness was dependent upon the material.
I found that in galvanized steel, 28 gauge is .0187 inches thick.

I have to put the measurement in my service notes too.

Thanks for the photos and info guys.  I had ordered this part from Just Trains LLC a few months back. He had two versions, one 726-127x which I recall measured .052 and the standard 726-127 which unfortunately I can't recall the thickness.  He sent me 726-127x which didn't do the job.  The standard part was back ordered but apparently no longer available as it is no longer listed on his site.  Appreciate all the input so I'll add it my collection of suggestions and we'll see what works.

I hope you'll excuse me, but reading through this thread has lead me down a different path.

First of all, I have no 'skin in the game' regarding a 726 shim.  I don't have a 726 Berkshire.  But I was curious what all the 'fuss' was about regarding a shim, so I had to read through.  And, after seeing the photo(s) and reading some dimensional specs, I'm left shaking the head for a different reason.

About 60 years ago I was the pimply age of 13.  I was in public junior high school (grades 7-9) in which the guys were obliged to attend shop classes as part of their curriculum.  You know, wood shop, print shop, METAL SHOP, etc.???  Now, in truth, for my own situation, Dad had already acquainted me with tools and techniques that obviated much of metal and wood shop classes.  But, I do vividly recall that one of our first individual metal class 'projects' was to make a simple flat metal object out of sheet stock....steel, more specifically.  We had to transfer the drawing info to the sheet, cut out the shape, dress the edges, drill holes, etc.......and receive a grade.  I'm sorry, but to look at the 726 shim, I'm transported back to my junior high metal shop experience.   We're talking a flat piece of 28 gauge steel, cut to a rectilinear U-shape of certain dimensions, with 4 holes of two different diameters drilled at defined positions on the legs of the U.  ()

Now, I am well aware that shop classes...gender-divisive as they were, besides being deemed antiquated and of no practical use in the learning experiences of life...are gone from virtually all public school curricula.  Too bad.  That in 2017 we consider this  piece of flat sheet steel of simple form and fabrication to be 'scarce' enough to mount a search is incredible.

What's really 'scarce' in a situation like this.....IMHO, of course....is our ability to easily transcend our search for a corporate or retail solution by applying some basic learned skills.

In the same era one of my hobby heroes was a guy by the name of Mel Thornburg.  Never met him.  He was well published in Model Railroader magazine, having written several serial articles on fabricating...from scratch...beautiful locomotives of brass and steel, using sheet, rod, wire stock, and simple hand tools.  Example: Creating a shaped round part (e.g., sand dome, horn, bell, etc.) using rod stock turned with a hand drill clamped in a vise while using hand files as 'cutting tools' for the shaping.   (Now that's just how we all would do it even today, right???  Yeah.....sure.)

IOW, I'm concerned that what's 'scarce' today is not the 726 shim, p/n 726-127, itself made by Lionel (?), but the skills and confidence to say 'Heck, I can make that myself!'  Now, to be fair, the use of washers is probably one of the things I would've tried first myself.  The shaped shim is more....elegant...., of course.  It would take a tad longer to fabricate.

So, as a parting thought, maybe we, as caretakers of this hobby heritage, should start leaving behind not an assured supply of old parts available through Amazon or even a hole-in-the-wall retailer, but an accessible engineering record of the part for those who are encouraged to (gasp!!) make their own.  For example, we have an original sample of this.....scarce.....shim; take measurements, make a simple drawing/specification, post it on the forum in response to the need.

Please understand, I'm not being disparaging about the responses in this thread.  I'm suggesting an alternative solution to encourage dependency on ourselves, rather than on others.

FWIW, always...

KD

BTW:  In a separate thread running concurrent to this one, I read about a couple of plaintiffs taking Menards and Home Depot to court, demanding $5,000,000 in reparations for the "deception" that  2x4 and 4x4 lumber is not, in fact  2" and 4" in respective actual dimensions.  Well, duh, Bubba!  This 70-year industrial standard was also taught in those useless shop classes now dissed by the all-knowing administrators of public education.  What would you expect???

I'll say it again....

So, as a parting thought, maybe we, as caretakers of this hobby heritage, should start leaving behind not an assured supply of old parts available through Amazon or even a hole-in-the-wall retailer, but an accessible engineering record of the part for those who are encouraged to (gasp!!) make their own.  For example, we have an original sample of this.....scarce.....shim; take measurements, make a simple drawing/specification, post it on the forum in response to the need.

Isn't that exactly what happened in this thread?

With the information shared in this thread, and the tools / skills I possess, I could make the shim.
I'd still rather have one that was manufactured by Lionel. 

CharlieS posted:

So, as a parting thought, maybe we, as caretakers of this hobby heritage, should start leaving behind not an assured supply of old parts available through Amazon or even a hole-in-the-wall retailer, but an accessible engineering record of the part for those who are encouraged to (gasp!!) make their own.  For example, we have an original sample of this.....scarce.....shim; take measurements, make a simple drawing/specification, post it on the forum in response to the need.

Isn't that exactly what happened in this thread?

With the information shared in this thread, and the tools / skills I possess, I could make the shim.
I'd still rather have one that was manufactured by Lionel. 

Well,yes,.....sort of.   If the length/width of the shim were measured/noted, a copy of the response photo could be made in scale proportion from which all other planar dimensions could be extrapolated.  Of course, having an actual 726 would help, too.  

This past weekend my wife and I attended a local auto show.  Among the local vendors providing information for the reproduction of parts was a gentleman who had a CNC Plasma Cutter operation for making steel parts.  Among the demonstration products he showed were some small parts, about the size of a business card, having shaped holes, etc., of sheet steel (gauge unknown)......sort of in the same genre as this shim.  These small parts were literally 'child's play' compared to the larger, more intricate cut patterns he was showing.  Now CNC Plasma Cutting is a leap beyond the jeweler's saw and drill press level of fabrication, I'll admit, but it underscored the available alternatives to scarcity for this shim.

Again, FWIW.

KD

I like DKDKRD, learned these simple skills in metal shop in school. This shim that's so easy to make; that with a little time a patience could be had. Other than the  name that is associated with it, its just a shim. why not spend a dollar for the sheet metal, and make these things, maybe if some one did; hey you might be able to sell a few, to other that need it also. Then it wouldn't be scarce anymore, it just wouldn't have the MADE in USA by the Lionel Coop. Easy peazy all done and you have the part you need, If I had enough tools and a shop to work in, I make and sell to you for $5.00 and I'd make a few bucks, and I don't even need one. I see opportunity here, go figure; its the old I wasn't it now, instead of I can do it myself attitude. My 2 cents worth. 

I spelled wrong. It was supposed to say. ( Its the old I want it now, instead of I can make it myself attitude ). 

Well,yes,.....sort of.   If the length/width of the shim were measured/noted, a copy of the response photo could be made in scale proportion from which all other planar dimensions could be extrapolated.  Of course, having an actual 726 would help, too.

Honestly, the only dimension that is needed is the thickness. The other dimensions can be taken from a motor or chassis. If you don't have a 726 from which to measure, then why would you need a shim?

hey you might be able to sell a few, to other that need it also.

It's an obscure part that is very low demand. If there was a call for them, somebody would have made a repro by now. Train Tender has had laser cut parts made for years. (Don't know what he is doing these days).

The problem with making the part by hand is the time required to make one neatly. If you can make a neat one to sell for $5.00 then either you are much more skilled at working sheet metal than I, or you don't value your labor.

We have to remember that the shim is only needed if the repair person is going to change the worm gear from 23 teeth to 25 teeth. A bad 23 tooth gear could be replaced with another 23 tooth gear. If the engine has a 25 tooth gear, then it already has the shim.

Harmonyards  wrote that he made the switch a few times. Not certain whether Marty did too.
How many people have made the conversion? - Probably not many.
In another thread, I mentioned that I have seen very few 1946 smoke bulb engines converted to heater, which I think would be a much more popular conversion.