smoke unit issues

OK, this is worrying. Both the smoke regulator and your DCDS main motor driver module need serial data from the R4lC. So here is why that is worrying- Lionel used similar color wires (example multiple brown wires) on the AC smoke regulator and if you got it wrong when replacing the smoke regulator- you could be killing off the serial data or worse, backfeeding power up the serial data line to everything else. Given key boards are not available at the moment, this is really an extra layer of problematic. https://www.lionelsupport.com/...-Diesel-5121-6-28365

The smoke fan is powered by the tiny 78L05 3 pin regulator on the smoke unit PCB

I cannot tell in this photo if the 5V is derived from heater power, or a separate hot wire (the connector is 3 pins) and that would come from the R4LC smoke TRIAC output. Again, in theory in that 3 pin connector, one is frame ground, one is heater regulated AC from the smoke regulator, and the other is smoke fan power AC coming from the R4LC.

i bought  a new motor, new board, wires from motor to board are properly connected, As far as the regulator I traced each wire 1 at a time and all solder connections (appear) to be good, **** if i have to go with no smoke that's fine, it was running prior now it wont run, But I would like smoke

@lennster posted:

i bought  a new motor, new board, wires from motor to board are properly connected, As far as the regulator I traced each wire 1 at a time and all solder connections (appear) to

So the first thing I would do is back out (undo) the new smoke regulator ensuring the serial data wire and track power wire are insulated and see if I got motor control back for the main drive motor. Because right now, that is by far your biggest problem right?- can't even use the loco.

You in theory, already did the firmware side of this reset to ensure the R4LC was in the right feature code to be sending correctly formatted data.

So what we are hoping for, praying for, is that the new smoke regulator or it's wiring is causing the serial data line to be loaded down and thus the DCDS motor driver is not getting serial data, so it doesn't know to begin moving. Again, the R4LC is the source of the serial data, the smoke regulator, the railsounds, and the DCDS motor driver are all receiving that serial data to then follow commands.

Again, your problem statement is- a bunch of stuff is NOT working after replacing parts.

@lennster posted:

Lionel  Dash 9 diesel, #6-28365 not smoking>

I replaced the a/c regulator as many here have suggested, fan motor will still not come on?????

all sounds work fine couplers fine,

Now i have no movement forward or reverse, I have reset the engine using Lionel's code 2 for diesel....nothing,,,,,, running  legacy.

Now this is not "the" diagram for your exact loco, but does have similar elements (R4LC, smoke regulator, DCDS) Posted by @gunrunnerjohn https://ogrforum.com/...2#146142158382360402

Some key notes from this diagram:

Again, the serial data line is shared between the DCDS and the smoke regulator

The fan is driven by rectified and then regulated 5V DC derived from input AC power from the smoke regulator.  The 3 pin connector of the smoke unit is fed hot from the regulator on the 2 outside terminals and the center pin should be frame ground but it appears wired through the regulator wiring- as drawn here.

Point being, if the regulator is both killing serial data, and not then functioning and providing smoke AC power, then neither the heater nor the fan would get power. Edit- and, the DCDS might not get serial data and might not work for main drive motor.

Second part of that is, the smoke unit itself again has a half wave single diode rectifier and then regulates that rectified DC down to 5V for the fan motor. The fundamental problem with half wave rectification is that if it's not seeing real AC or distorted chopped "regulated" AC that can have some DC polarity aspect or shift to it- then the fan motor ALSO would not get enough power or voltage to spin.

Vernon,

The diagram is slightly fuzzy.  Not enough to interfere with understanding the wiring and connections, but enough to distort the text.

Can't read the notes or the title block for instance.

Can you repost it for us at higher resolution?

Thanks,

Mike

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Vernon,

The diagram is slightly fuzzy.  Not enough to interfere with understanding the wiring and connections, but enough to distort the text.

Can't read the notes or the title block for instance.

Can you repost it for us at higher resolution?

Thanks,

Mike

Posted by @gunrunnerjohn

original post here https://ogrforum.com/...2#146142158382360402

So sadly, since I'm not the original owner, that's the best link.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

The diagram is slightly fuzzy.  Not enough to interfere with understanding the wiring and connections, but enough to distort the text.

Can't read the notes or the title block for instance.

Can you repost it for us at higher resolution?

I've attached a ZIP of my original, that's as good as it gets.

Lionel Legacy GP7 Wiring Diagram.zip

@lennster posted:

I have a Lionel  Dash 9 diesel, #6-28365 not smoking>

Fan motor is operational while connected to 9 volt battery, element heats, I replaced the a/c regulator as many here have suggested, fan motor will still not come on?????

'

John and Vernon are the experts here, but I believe the AC regulators primary function is controlling  the power to the element/ resistor.

Having said that. There have been faulty fan motors that would still run on a 9v battery, but not on the 5v supplied by the board.

The AC regulator is primarily for the heater, but for many TMCC diesels, it also supplies the 5V P/S on the smoke unit input power.

The way to test the fan motor is on a much lower voltage.  If the smoke fan motor won't run on 1.5 volts from a single battery, I deem them to be faulty and replace them.  Also, I've seen smoke fan motors that draw ten times their rated current, they still run with a battery, but not in the smoke unit.  I test them on a bench supply with current and voltage monitoring.

FWIW, a 9V battery will run almost any defective motor unless it's completely dead, that is a very poor test!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've attached a ZIP of my original, that's as good as it gets.

Lionel Legacy GP7 Wiring Diagram.zip

Much better.

Thanks,

Mike

Sadly I'm no electronic guru, but I did trace all wires as per the diagram, and all looks good, all wires in correct places, I disconnected the complete smoke unit  from the regulator  all sounds are still good, couplers , whistle bell all ok  but no movement forward are back,

NO clue

Motor drive issues have nothing to do with smoke or the smoke regulator.

That's a given just don't know why now, when it was running before putting  regulator in and doing a factory reset

Well, for motor drive issues, I'd stop looking at the smoke regulator.  You must have affected something around the motor driver boards during the regulator replacement.

I must have  suggestions?

The first thing was suggested early on.  Make SURE that the brown wire was connected to the serial data, and NOT the black wire with the brown tracer.  If you ever connected the black wire with the brown tracer to the serial data and powered it on, you probably have a pretty major problem!

You're looking for suggestions, but there are infinite possibilities.  I know how I'd go about it, but I have the parts to change and the experience to recognize wiring issues.  Trying to fix this in ASCII in a forum is a daunting task.

thanks for all the help gunrunner I checked all my wires again  looks like its time for a pro to look at it? Unfortunately no service dealers her in Baton Rouge La

would i be better served sending to lionel or an authorized servicing dealer

Lionel doesn't do non-warranty repairs, so that's not an option.

how Henning's Trains???????