So many for sale!

Because they had issues. Don't ever buy any train unless you know what you are buying.

Do your  own research, don't depend on others.

Dave

Dave - What were the issues with these engines?  I know they are pre-TMCC.  Conventional only.  Didn't think they had that gear problem like the Rock Island / Reading engines.

Mine ran flawlessly for more than twenty years. Pulled well, looked good and had a better than average whistle.  This is the first I heard of any 'issues'.  John in Lansing, Ill

rattler21 posted:

Mine ran flawlessly for more than twenty years. This is the first I heard of any 'issues'.  John in Lansing, Ill

John - is the sound half way decent?  I suppose it does chug and smoke in time - right?  Cheesy whistle or not?

Thanks - Ponz

I'm sending back a defective T1 to a seller and am skittish about trying another.  The Mohawk is also pretty impressive looking.

Ponz

Still have mine - Whistle is good - Chuffs 2 per revolution.  There is a modification you can do to the sound board to increase the chuffs, not really in sync with the drivers.  Puffer smoke unit OK - Added a switch to mine so I could shut it off, otherwise it is always on.  It is conventional operation - no command.  Also changed to an electronic eunit had the mechanical eunit.

Never had any issues with mine. Ran flawlessly for many years. I did upgrade with can motor and ERR cruise components and now runs with today’s best under command. 

It’ s a nice engine......but command control and DC can motors made it old news....

One of our modular unit members picked up one at a Greenberg show here in Richmond about 5 or 6 years ago (for about $300 with a Premier MTH New York Central caboose) and had has heavily weathered it and runs it all the time at shows.

Peter

rattler21 posted:

Ponz, 

I bought mine from a man in our modular group in Cincinnati. He bought it new from Davis Trains in Milford and cared for it like a new born infant.  I ran it almost daily on a room size layout and as many hours as I could when the module layout was set up.  We never had less than seven K-Line heavyweight passenger cars behind it.  I think Mike Wolf was the project manager at Lionel for this engine and he used a recording of a Mohawk for the whistle.  All I did was lube it about every other month and change the traction tires as needed.   I sold it when I bought my first Northern. 

On which venue was the T-1 listed?  In no particular order, I'm comfortable buying engines listed in The Interchange Track, OGR Forum and at train shows with a test track. 

John in Lansing, ILL

Listed on the bay.  Interchange Track??

david1 posted:

Because they had issues. Don't ever buy any train unless you know what you are buying.

Do your  own research, don't depend on others.

Dave

 

Which is kind of what he is doing....

These are very good early (MTH) Lionel scale models - for their times. My only objections were the Pullmor motor and the incomplete valve gear. Timko converted mine to a DC can motor and installed ERR Cruise Commander/sound (I usually do the ERR, but as long as he had it...)

Mechanically the early Lionel Reading T1 and the Mohawk are the same piece. I understand that this was Samhongsa's first die-cast project; they had been in the brass/Tinplate repro RR business only before that (see Williams/Weaver brass), I understand. If it had been made with a can motor (Lionel wanted that "traditional" drive train...too d**n bad...) and complete valve gear they would be more valuable.

But - a friend has an un-modified version and loves it. Runs well, considering. They run as well as any AC motored unit. If you like it, I'd say buy it. They can be a lot of good-looking and accurate model for not much money. Solidly built, I'd say.

I believe they were actually designed and imported by Mike Wolf for Lionel before the creation of MTH. Then there was a dispute between Mike and Lionel (not the last as we know), and the rest is history. For their  day, they were great engines. I had Frank Timko convert mine to DCS years ago and it ran flawlessly. Until I dropped the tender and now I need to fix the rear truck. That will get done some day. 

Gerry

These are tough, well built locomotives....I own a bunch....although I Pittman swap every last one, out of the box they’re fine runners....very basic sounds, lack luster whistle, but they work. They have piston driven smoke, not terrible out put, but not up to today’s standards as all of the others mentioned. ......the only problem I’ve ever encountered on a couple locomotives is dried up grease......easy fix...usually these can be had at descent prices now a days....I still snap them up if the price is right!....😉...........Pat

Here's mine. Runs great. Has that Pull-more motor growl.

Jim

Jim Policastro posted:

Here's mine. Runs great. Has that Pull-more motor growl.

Jim

Nice Jim.  Is that a club layout or yours?

Ponz

Jim Policastro posted:

Here's mine. Runs great. Has that Pull-more motor growl.

Jim

Now I'm torn between this and giving another T1 a shot!

What’s wrong with the T1 you got? again, these are the same family of engines from Lionel.....as all the others pointed out....there’s not a lot to go wrong, unless it has some severe issue of physical damage, this is a great engine for you to learn how to service/repair you’re own equipment. If a seller tells me one of these is perfect running, and it’s not, I negotiate a better deal, and keep it....then fix it before moving on with my mods....unless the shipper drug it behind their  truck, theres not a lot that can go wrong with them, that isn’t easily fixed!..........Pat...

T1, Mohawk, and Chessie Steam Special all share the same chassis and motor set up..

Ponz posted:

Nice Jim.  Is that a club layout or yours?

Ponz

Ponz,

That's my former home layout.

Remember that this engine and the T1 have more in common with postwar trains than the modern can motor equipped engines. There will be more noise. The sounds will have lots of static (notice I don't run these with sound). Also, slow speed control will be limited.

But, they will run well at speed and look good with scale equipment. 

Here's a clip of the T1 in action;

Jim

harmonyards posted:

What’s wrong with the T1 you got? again, these are the same family of engines from Lionel.....as all the others pointed out....there’s not a lot to go wrong, unless it has some severe issue of physical damage, this is a great engine for you to learn how to service/repair you’re own equipment. If a seller tells me one of these is perfect running, and it’s not, I negotiate a better deal, and keep it....then fix it before moving on with my mods....unless the shipper drug it behind their  truck, theres not a lot that can go wrong with them, that isn’t easily fixed!..........Pat...

 

T1, Mohawk, and Chessie Steam Special all share the same chassis and motor set up..

Pat,

I really liked the looks of the T1, but the sounds of steam and whistle wasn't working and the tender drawbar/uncouple button was dragging on the track causing a short/spark right at the tender engine hookup.   I had to place a piece of electrical tape to insulate the tender drawbar from the track to avoid a small light show and see the engine run. I suspect a fried board.

• Do these engines, as you said, all have the same motor as well?
• Between the Mohawk and T1 which is a stronger puller?  
• Is it difficult to put an on/off switch in either for the smoke?

Thanks in advance - John 

Jim Policastro posted:

Ponz posted:

Nice Jim.  Is that a club layout or yours?

Ponz

Ponz,

That's my former home layout.

Remember that this engine and the T1 have more in common with postwar trains than the modern can motor equipped engines. There will be more noise. The sounds will have lots of static (notice I don't run these with sound). Also, slow speed control will be limited.

But, they will run well at speed and look good with scale equipment. 

Here's a clip of the T1 in action;

Jim

Very Nice.  Given limited resources, which of the two would you recommend? Is one easier to work on than the other? Motor and/or board swaps?  Stronger puller?  I have a nice fleet of Pecos River freight cars and a nice set of Pullman Heavyweights.

Ponz

Ponz posted:

harmonyards posted:

What’s wrong with the T1 you got? again, these are the same family of engines from Lionel.....as all the others pointed out....there’s not a lot to go wrong, unless it has some severe issue of physical damage, this is a great engine for you to learn how to service/repair you’re own equipment. If a seller tells me one of these is perfect running, and it’s not, I negotiate a better deal, and keep it....then fix it before moving on with my mods....unless the shipper drug it behind their  truck, theres not a lot that can go wrong with them, that isn’t easily fixed!..........Pat...

 

T1, Mohawk, and Chessie Steam Special all share the same chassis and motor set up..

Pat,

I really liked the looks of the T1, but the sounds of steam and whistle wasn't working and the tender drawbar/uncouple button was dragging on the track causing a short/spark right at the tender engine hookup.   I had to place a piece of electrical tape to insulate the tender drawbar from the track to avoid a small light show and see the engine run. I suspect a fried board.

• Do these engines, as you said, all have the same motor as well?
• Between the Mohawk and T1 which is a stronger puller?  
• Is it difficult to put an on/off switch in either for the smoke?

Thanks in advance - John 

Answers in order you asked, ..1 yes, 2 same, 3 no......it’s that simple buddy!........Pat

harmonyards posted:

Ponz posted:

harmonyards posted:

What’s wrong with the T1 you got? again, these are the same family of engines from Lionel.....as all the others pointed out....there’s not a lot to go wrong, unless it has some severe issue of physical damage, this is a great engine for you to learn how to service/repair you’re own equipment. If a seller tells me one of these is perfect running, and it’s not, I negotiate a better deal, and keep it....then fix it before moving on with my mods....unless the shipper drug it behind their  truck, theres not a lot that can go wrong with them, that isn’t easily fixed!..........Pat...

 

T1, Mohawk, and Chessie Steam Special all share the same chassis and motor set up..

Pat,

I really liked the looks of the T1, but the sounds of steam and whistle wasn't working and the tender drawbar/uncouple button was dragging on the track causing a short/spark right at the tender engine hookup.   I had to place a piece of electrical tape to insulate the tender drawbar from the track to avoid a small light show and see the engine run. I suspect a fried board.

• Do these engines, as you said, all have the same motor as well?
• Between the Mohawk and T1 which is a stronger puller?  
• Is it difficult to put an on/off switch in either for the smoke?

Thanks in advance - John 

Answers in order you asked, ..1 yes, 2 same, 3 no......it’s that simple buddy!........Pat

Many thanks...

My thoughts:

-There are no "issues," but you should expect about the same running performance as your T-1 (if it were running properly.)

-Series-wound AC ("Pullmor") motors will vary in speed much more so than DC "can" motors.  If any part of your layout has a slight incline or a "voltage drop," an AC-motored loco like this will slow down noticeably.

-I'm not a fan of the small Timko motors, and especially not of rubber tires.   If you really want to upgrade, maybe Pat @harmonyards would be willing to install a big Pittman motor for you.  I don't know how big your layout is, but it should pull a pretty long train, even with the original motor and steel wheels (no tires.)  A little bit of wheelspin is prototypical, and a good thing!

-You can install TMCC and/or an upgraded sound system even if you keep the original motor.  If you install a Pittman motor, you'll get better performance and have even more upgrade options.  But if you upgrade everything, the total cost will approach that of a Legacy or PS3 loco.  Compared to those it lacks detail, but you can always buy parts from Precision Scale and add them.  Do it for your own use, and don't worry about the resale value!

Ted S posted:

My thoughts:

-There are no "issues," but you should expect about the same running performance as your T-1 (if it were running properly.)

-Series-wound AC ("Pullmor") motors will vary in speed much more so than DC "can" motors.  If any part of your layout has a slight incline or a "voltage drop," an AC-motored loco like this will slow down noticeably.

-I'm not a fan of the small Timko motors, and especially not of rubber tires.   If you really want to upgrade, maybe Pat @harmonyards would be willing to install a big Pittman motor for you.  I don't know how big your layout is, but it should pull a pretty long train, even with the original motor and steel wheels (no tires.)  A little bit of wheelspin is prototypical, and a good thing!

-You can install TMCC and/or an upgraded sound system even if you keep the original motor.  If you install a Pittman motor, you'll get better performance and have even more upgrade options.  But if you upgrade everything, the total cost will approach that of a Legacy or PS3 loco.  Compared to those it lacks detail, but you can always buy parts from Precision Scale and add them.  Do it for your own use, and don't worry about the resale value!

Ted,

I have a small, but not so cheap, basement layout - 8x8.5 with an outer loop and a reverse Y in the center. Yes, I do notice my older conventional engines slowing (at slow speeds) even with the slightest tilt off bubble. 

Now the trick is to luck out with a trouble-free one!

harmonyards posted:

Ponz posted:

harmonyards posted:

What’s wrong with the T1 you got? again, these are the same family of engines from Lionel.....as all the others pointed out....there’s not a lot to go wrong, unless it has some severe issue of physical damage, this is a great engine for you to learn how to service/repair you’re own equipment. If a seller tells me one of these is perfect running, and it’s not, I negotiate a better deal, and keep it....then fix it before moving on with my mods....unless the shipper drug it behind their  truck, theres not a lot that can go wrong with them, that isn’t easily fixed!..........Pat...

 

T1, Mohawk, and Chessie Steam Special all share the same chassis and motor set up..

Pat,

I really liked the looks of the T1, but the sounds of steam and whistle wasn't working and the tender drawbar/uncouple button was dragging on the track causing a short/spark right at the tender engine hookup.   I had to place a piece of electrical tape to insulate the tender drawbar from the track to avoid a small light show and see the engine run. I suspect a fried board.

• Do these engines, as you said, all have the same motor as well?
• Between the Mohawk and T1 which is a stronger puller?  
• Is it difficult to put an on/off switch in either for the smoke?

Thanks in advance - John 

Answers in order you asked, ..1 yes, 2 same, 3 no......it’s that simple buddy!........Pat

What about a bad boy like this?  Any knowledge?

GB MTH RK-1108 Union Pacific 4-6-6-4 Challenger Steam Engine Whistle, Non Proto

Now the trick is to luck out with a trouble-free one!

John, keep this in mind....the engines in this family are older now, ....no, not quite as old as postwar, but nonetheless, they will require some maintenance if they have been sitting for a while....ask questions to your seller, see if they have tested all the functions and performed basic maintenance before you purchase.....if you do buy one untested, have someone service it and test it if you are not comfortable doing it yourself. ......there’s plenty of us on the forum that can help you get things serviced and running like new!........Pat

harmonyards posted:

Now the trick is to luck out with a trouble-free one!

John, keep this in mind....the engines in this family are older now, ....no, not quite as old as postwar, but nonetheless, they will require some maintenance if they have been sitting for a while....ask questions to your seller, see if they have tested all the functions and performed basic maintenance before you purchase.....if you do buy one untested, have someone service it and test it if you are not comfortable doing it yourself. ......there’s plenty of us on the forum that can help you get things serviced and running like new!........Pat

Yes Pat - I understand that. Most sellers on that well-used auction site  advertise as 'ran once then shelved' or 'untested' or 'like new' or 'came from a collector'. I'm capable of lubing and taking care of broken wires - even some mild Dremel work if necessary. My soldering skills are basic. I can swap out a tender board if it's not too complicated.  Given easy to read and straightforward instructions, my fat fingers, sometimes, surprise me!

Thank loads - John 

david1 posted:

Because they had issues. Don't ever buy any train unless you know what you are buying.

Do your  own research, don't depend on others.

Dave

 

If you're going to say this, then you should include the information that you are aware of.

rrgeorge posted:

Still have mine - Whistle is good - Chuffs 2 per revolution.  There is a modification you can do to the sound board to increase the chuffs, not really in sync with the drivers.  Puffer smoke unit OK - Added a switch to mine so I could shut it off, otherwise it is always on.  It is conventional operation - no command.  Also changed to an electronic eunit had the mechanical eunit.

George,

How complicated or not is it to add that switch for smoke - and is the e-unit very expensive?  Can I assume it's an easy swap out?

Ponz

The hardest part of a smoke unit switch is mounting the switch and or making holes if you want easy access like in the cab on the floor etc.. I don't have insight into where it might fit best on those. Just that isn't too hard in others I have done it to.

 A micro toggle needs just one drilled hole to mount.  A slide switch needs two small holes for mounting and one or two holes so the switch can slide. The holes can run together to form a long slot, wide at the slide/center; and narrow on the ends to trap half screw shanks. Once two screws are in place, screws stop the sw. body from sliding in the mount, and screw heads can't slip to the wide center to fall out of the slot.  Kinda like the back of a wall mounted landline phone with a screw to keep it from sliding up and off the wall mount.

Wires. Just take one off the smoke unit put it on the spst sw.  Then one wire from the other sw. terminal to the smoke unit. 

S later boards may need a resistor to match the sm.units Ω. That would fool a smart board into thinking the unit was there. Otherwise the board might try increasing power to get more heat. Heat raises resistance, so a board like that would think it was hot and feed less, or no power thinking it was hot already.  If that sm-unit wasn't wired directly to roller power, I'd be amazed.

Is that a "Lionel- Sound of Steam ©™® " unit? Or did the wording just happen to end up that way?  Sound of Steam units were mounted on foam tape that turned to dust over time, allowing boards solder points to short on the ender chassis. Before running the tenders, you should check the foam, fix that with new foam tape or velcro, or board mounts, etc.. Once it can't short, it is safe for a test on the rails 

Adriatic posted:

The hardest part of a smoke unit switch is mounting the switch and or making holes if you want easy access like in the cab on the floor etc.. I don't have insight into where it might fit best on those. Just that isn't too hard in others I have done it to.

 A micro toggle needs just one drilled hole to mount.  A slide switch needs two small holes for mounting and one or two holes so the switch can slide. The holes can run together to form a long slot, wide at the slide/center; and narrow on the ends to trap half screw shanks. Once two screws are in place, screws stop the sw. body from sliding in the mount, and screw heads can't slip to the wide center to fall out of the slot.  Kinda like the back of a wall mounted landline phone with a screw to keep it from sliding up and off the wall mount.

Wires. Just take one off the smoke unit put it on the spst sw.  Then one wire from the other sw. terminal to the smoke unit. 

S later boards may need a resistor to match the sm.units Ω. That would fool a smart board into thinking the unit was there. Otherwise the board might try increasing power to get more heat. Heat raises resistance, so a board like that would think it was hot and feed less, or no power thinking it was hot already.  If that sm-unit wasn't wired directly to roller power, I'd be amazed.

Is that a "Lionel- Sound of Steam ©™® " unit? Or did the wording just happen to end up that way?  Sound of Steam units were mounted on foam tape that turned to dust over time, allowing boards solder points to short on the ender chassis. Before running the tenders, you should check the foam, fix that with new foam tape or velcro, or board mounts, etc.. Once it can't short, it is safe for a test on the rails 

Thank you.  I'll revisit this after I get one home.

Ponz

Not sure who I purchased the electronic e-unit from (Dallee / QSI)? The original e-unit buzzed like crazy.

The sound circuits are in the tender.  They are a step above sound of steam, maybe railsounds 1.0 ??  The smoke unit is wired directly from the center roller pickup, like the postwar engines were.  I would have to take it apart to see how I mounted the micro switch. The engine is now about 29 years old!!

Matt_GNo27 posted:

david1 posted:

Because they had issues. Don't ever buy any train unless you know what you are buying.

Do your  own research, don't depend on others.

Dave

 

If you're going to say this, then you should include the information that you are aware of.

I had two of them and both were junk IMO. It ran and sounded horrible. Both had e units that went bad. One had a stripped gear. They looked nice but that was just about all.  A few friends had them and theirs were not much better. I eventually sold them to people who thought they could make them perform better. They were also wrong. 

If you can pick them up for about $250, they make a nice display piece.

Dave

david1 posted:

Matt_GNo27 posted:

david1 posted:

Because they had issues. Don't ever buy any train unless you know what you are buying.

Do your  own research, don't depend on others.

Dave

 

If you're going to say this, then you should include the information that you are aware of.

I had two of them and both were junk IMO. It ran and sounded horrible. Both had e units that went bad. One had a stripped gear. They looked nice but that was just about all.  A few friends had them and theirs were not much better. I eventually sold them to people who thought they could make them perform better. They were also wrong. 

If you can pick them up for about $250, they make a nice display piece.

 

Dave

Wow!  

This might help you handle my long-windedness

Adriatic posted:

This might help you handle my long-windedness

Thank you!

They cost $1,000 when new. I have 19 1/2 " radius or 39" dia. at the center rail Gargraves. I have both of them and they go around this curves fine, I can hear the flanges but they don't slow up or otherwise make me think anything is wrong.

D500 posted:

david1 posted:

Because they had issues. Don't ever buy any train unless you know what you are buying.

Do your  own research, don't depend on others.

Dave

 

Which is kind of what he is doing....

These are very good early (MTH) Lionel scale models - for their times. My only objections were the Pullmor motor and the incomplete valve gear. Timko converted mine to a DC can motor and installed ERR Cruise Commander/sound (I usually do the ERR, but as long as he had it...)

Mechanically the early Lionel Reading T1 and the Mohawk are the same piece. I understand that this was Samhongsa's first die-cast project; they had been in the brass/Tinplate repro RR business only before that (see Williams/Weaver brass), I understand. If it had been made with a can motor (Lionel wanted that "traditional" drive train...too d**n bad...) and complete valve gear they would be more valuable.

But - a friend has an un-modified version and loves it. Runs well, considering. They run as well as any AC motored unit. If you like it, I'd say buy it. They can be a lot of good-looking and accurate model for not much money. Solidly built, I'd say.

Can the valve gear be replaced or upgraded with parts for other engines?  Pat B.